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Discussion Starter #1
After hearing about the Colorado shooting I've became very passionate about my 2nd amendment right. My dad and I both went to the Gun Show the day after the shooting occurred. About a week later, I am now the owner of the Ruger LCP. (I wanted something small and slim as I wear fitting cloths.)

While looking for the best option, I ran into many avid gun owners. Several who brought the Colorado incident up as reasons why you should carry. I talked to one salesman at Cabalas who carries. I asked him what he would have done if he was carrying in that situation, he replied with the shocking answer "Absolutely nothing, that would have just made me a target.".

I stood in disbelief. A man, shooting rapidly into a large crowd, having what would have been the only opposing weapon there, and you would do nothing?

After trying to consider this logically, I couldn't over come thinking how cowardly he was. Then this quote popped in my head.

"With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility"

Such power comes with owning and carrying a gun. Knowing you can defend yourself when faced with a threatening danger.

I feel that with owning and concealing a gun, I have a responsibility. Not just to protect myself and my loved ones, but someone else's loved ones faced with danger in my presence.

If you were put in the situation in colorado and were carrying, how would you not feel obligated to empty your clip, wether he was covered in armor or not. Even if there was only a small chance of hitting and stopping him, how could you not take it?

With this also should come with the responsibility of educating yourself on concealing and carrying your weapon. I have refused to carry mine until I have taken at least one class.



On a side note - The video of this old man standing up against 2 armed robbers is incredible. (Holdup at Palms Internet Cafe — Ocala.com Videos)
 

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Yes, with great power comes great responsibility....

However, no one is obligated to use such power or responsibility. There is no right answer for responding to such a threat. If all you have is a LCP that you've owned for two weeks and only taken a basic pistol class etc. and you go up against an armored and very well armed adversary in those conditions....the odds are very stacked against you.

Sure you could empty the magazine at the guy but what happens if while emptying that mag you don't hit him at all but hit three other persons. A LCP isn't exactly a laser of a pistol to begin with and all the factors that make it great for carry make it horrible as a no BS fighting pistol.

Now, if one were able to keep cool and place some well aimed fire on the bad guy, sure things could have gone differently, but that doesn't mean that it would have helped or had any positive effect.

The salesman is right in that he would have made himself a target, and it's not up to him to save anyone else. Some people have a very specific outlook on who they would assist and if given a chance of safe escape for my family or taking risky shots on the bad guy...that's going to be a hard choice to make.

Would I have taken action against the guy? It depends. Who am I with that is under the scope of my protection and can I protect them while returning fire? Will doing such DRAW fire not only to me but my family? What am I armed with? Can I safely direct fire on target or am I a sitting duck? Do I have the skills to hit the gunman and not the panicked crowd?

If you can't answer all of those with "YES", running like hell might be a better option.

If the salesman knows that he could not have have done what needed to be done, I have no problem with his course of action.

Personally given the dynamics of my family and the fact that my kids would not be with us at a mid-night showing and that my wife is a pretty small target and would herself be armed...yeah I'd take some shots on the guy.



Setting aside the sheep dog rhetoric, we have no moral or otherwise responsibility to aide in others, in most cases coming to the aide of a third party (an individual unknown to you) where you do not understand the circumstances can be very risky. However the case of an active shooter the details are a lot more clear cut and easier to decide that there is some serious wrong doing going on...other types of altercations are not so clear.

As a new gun owner, I am happy to see you going out and thinking about this, but as you've never even carried a gun, nor really had any proper training in employing that gun, don't be too quick to judge the ideals or character of others that have have a different point of view based on what they know they can or can not do.
 

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Unless a person has had a lot of training, I don't think anyone knows for sure what they would do. The guy that says he would do nothing may be the one that charges the shooter. The guy that always thought he would, may find himself on the run. Extreme stress often surprises the people that rise to the occasion. Since this was clearly a nutjob and not a domestic situation or somebody going for a particular target, I would like to think if I were armed and not with my family I would make an attempt at stopping the shooter. If I had my wife and/or kids I am just not sure. I guess I am in partial agreement with both of you.
 
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I have thought about this too....A man in body armor, a helmet, goggles & using tear gas in a very crowded dark theatre presents a pretty poor target for a LCP or any handgun...a HUGE probability of hitting innocent bystanders if you try to take him down. What bodypart would you specifically aim at? His head? pretty small target to hit in normal circumstances...legs? feet? Almost a gauranteed situation to kill innocents & cause further harm to legal gun ownership & concealed carry efforts. I seriously doubt if I would have fired unless he was directly over me & I was firing up with a clear field behind him.

I think several men rushing him & physically overpowering him would have been a better choice ....but hard to say as I was not there...I think about this lot & am trying to fix this principle in my mind so it becomes an automatic reaction....Consider your field of fire!
 

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I agree with Mustanger in that circumstances would have to be almost perfect for a concealed carrier to stop that shooter. Even an LEO with a full-sized service pistol would have a tough time in that environment unless he happened to be right next to his target. A crowded theater full of panicked people trying to escape is just about the worst scenario I could imagine as a retired law enforcement officer for stopping a determined maniac with a portable arsenal.
 

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It's hard to make any choice in the middle of chaos... mayhem... all h*ll breaking loose. If I read correctly, some theater patrons actually retreated towards the shooter without knowing any better. With 20/20 hindsight, things might be done differently, but I have to agree this is one of the worst case scenarios one could be presented with. A Kobayashi Maru of fictional proportions although I do not want to blend fiction with reality. All patrons handled things as best they possibly could.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Those are all great points, and believe me, I am not nieve enough to think Im going to be able be so brave in this situation. This would have been the absolute worse case scenario for someone that carries. Im not saying I would have just stood up and shot him. As a new gun owner, thats why I said I am not going to carry until I take at least one class. I plan on taking many to prepare my self for different scenarios that hopefully will never have to occur.

If he made it seem like he would analyze the situation, and if it wasn't right (people around him, to far, impaired by the gas), then say he wouldn't have done anything, that would have been fine. But to just say it would have made him a target I feel is so cowardly. Of corse if you had your family with you, you wouldn't want to make them a target by being close to you. I know alot of it is based on your situation as well.

As far as no morals to aid others, I was talking about a colorado like scenario, an obvious gun man attacking everyone there. I would not draw my weapon unless I understood the situation.

I was just really fired up when I posted this, Its a horrible world out there and the fact people can do that is just sickening.
 

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You are right there Lil Guy. We are often not very kind to one another, and this is often the best of us doing the not so kind things. I just try to be the good guy where I am. Open a door. Let someone cut in traffic. Give the the benefit of the doubt when they screw up. I did not always live that way, but in my forties being know as a nice guy is what I aim for. It does not have to be a horrible place where we are standing.
 

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Well put bdd, a little bit of good goes a long way and means a lot to some people!
 

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Without getting to sappy or preachy, everyday we could be standing next to a person that is at the end of their rope and they don't even have a knot to hold on to. With the exception of a few mukwah, we could make difference to them. Maybe we shoud start a new thread.........What did you do nice for a stranger today? Imagine the trouble that would cause the anti-gun crowd to have us all going around doing good for others. That would really screw them up. :glee:
 

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So true BDD, working at a hospital I see heartbreak and sadness every day. When I get to work I enter the surgery entrance where the waiting room is for surgery. If I see the TV is not on or someone just sitting there I alway ask them if there is something I can do for them like turn the TV on or change a channel, let them know there is free coffee. Basically simple acknowledgment can make a difference to someone who is down. Something that small makes a difference. Remember the old comercial "You meet the nicest people on a Honda"? my version "The nicest people legally carry guns."
 
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