[Druid]

Thank you so-o-o much for publishing this tour de force. I see that there are a couple of us who take such information and put it through the washing machine of the human mind. Seriously one must contemplate such circumstances and apply it to your personal situation. Where do you live? Is there in effect a state law that gives you the right to fire when approached by an armed assailant? Surely when you pull a gun you do it with the firmly established mental OK I am going to kill this guy. You must also know that you will have bear the thoughts of having taken a life. You will have to bear in mind that you may go to jail and charged with a crime or misdemeanor at best. You have to realize the cost of an attorney to defend you can eat up your life and leave you penniless. Now comes the biggest thing for you to accomplish and that is just what will your state, county, city do to you. The perp goes to the morgue or a hospital, his family sues you in civil court, you face a jury for Murder 1, manslaughter in various degrees, reckless endangerment , menacing etc. The old adage applies...I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. On January 12th I was the focus of a push in "armed robbery"---I spotted the gun as a phony plastic pistol (it was a chinese pellet pistol) he forced me in to the house and ordered me to shut off the ADT alarm ( guy was a bruiser)---instead I ran the silent alarm as he pushed me into the bedroom and began to ransack the room---he turned his back on me and I grabbed my Colt Cobra (from my nightstand) and brought this nonsense to a halt. Now I am 81 and not your doddering old gramps type, but I didn't shoot him as the responding LEO suggested. Would have I shot him? Knowing my local DA and the anti-gun status of New York State---my answer is no unless he tried to attack me---then being a pistol owner and active shooter since I was 22---the Hydra Shock .38's and Uncle Sam'l Colt would have taken a few bites out of his hide. All this BS boils down to---what have you personally worked out for your given circumstances, find out and decide before it's too late. Ya see I cannot carry except to and from a range in my county nor state, so you take a chance on carrying. Generally guys like me don't carry except legally, if you are fortunate enough to be able to CCW, then find out about your status if & when you have to make a choice. It's your choice, be educated, know the law in your territory, study the facts, make your choices, and now practice until it becomes muscle memory. Good Luck and may the Good Lord protect you and guide your hand & BTW don't listen to these "Guardhouse Lawyers" on forums---they don't know there own first names.........."Doc"

 

[Ubaldo99]

Excellent read. Very sobering. Thanks for the post, Skip. I have already forwarded it to several friends and family.

 

[Bgoff689]

Thanks to Yogi in his effort, plus the Moderator's in persuading the "powers that be" to allow it to be posted.

I've read this before at the site of orgin. It was interesting, as were some of the comments posted regarding it. I'm fortunate enough to live in a State which has Self Defense Laws (Castle Defense) and a CWP Program. If I'm subjected to an attack by an armed assailant, I know what my rights are.

It's only in crazy places, elsewhere that you can get cleared of a homicide or manslaughter charge by a jury and then later be arrested and charged for using a handgun to do so. That will only change when the citizens of those communities get sick and tired of being made victims by their politicians and thugs have a rotating door in and out of the judicial system.

 

[Ale-8]

Yogi - Thanks for sharing. Excellent perspective from someone who knows first hand.

Moderators - Thanks for working out the details to get this on the forum and still maintain the rules that have made Elsie Pea the best forum out there. This article was worth the effort you put forth.

 

[TRIGGER_1]

Yogi.....Thanks for the link....Enjoyed the read.....

 

[nickj]

After reading it again, the part that gives me that feeling is the "After" part. I can't help it. I know what the author is trying to convey, but this particular part in the article gives me that feeling. I'm trying to figure it out. I have read it a few times. Perhaps my initial thoughts are clouding my understanding on this piece of the article. I understand that it always in your best interest to not say a thing until you have discussed the situation with an attorney, but I guess I'm reading something the wrong way...

 

[Guest]

I'm afraid I'm missing something here as well, Nick. What exactly is "that feeling" you're talking about?

 

[Tarheel]

I understand that it always in your best interest to not say a thing until you have discussed the situation with an attorney, but I guess I'm reading something the wrong way...

....don't think so, nickj. He offers the same advice that my two CCP instructors carefully explained....both are VA attorneys. My thoughts are that the author wished to walk us through situational awareness of a serious confrontation from beginning to the end....awareness of your potential legal predicament after a shooting is extremely important. A LEO investigator has but one job...to get to the bottom of the incident with facts, which includes grilling you as much as legally possible before an attorney tells you to keep your lips zilled. The LEO is doing his/her job, so please don't misinterpret that statement. The author goes into great detail in the piece regarding the tactics he has used to obtaiin information. YMMV

Tarheel

 

[Yogi 117]

But after reading this I get the "shoot now, ask questions later" vibe. Does anyone else?

This "After Vibe" you refer to should only hit you after you have exhausted all other tactics he suggests (or any others you have in place) to fend off the BG. IMHO, he gives us all some great ideas to put into affect before ever shooting said BG. I say we MUST be AWARE of what's around us, no matter where we are. Bad things can happen in good parts of "Anytown, USA". Again, this piece gives you ideas to think about, and possibly employ, if the situation ever arises. By no means is this one LEO's opinion set in stone, just a beginning point for all of us. NOT ONE of us wants to shoot anyone, but when all else fails & you DO pull that trigger, seeking good legal advice before spilling the whole story is a must. Yogi ;D

 

[Guest]

You could obviously write a book or have an endless discussion about the matter, but I’ll offer a few comments within the context of “After”:

• If you shoot somebody, the police are going to respond. It’s usually beneficial if YOU are the one that called 911 – but it’s not a deal breaker.

• When they get there, you may initially be treated like a suspect that has committed a crime. Somebody has been shot, you have a gun, duh, duh, duh……? How you act and react will determine if they continue to treat you like a criminal.

• You have several choices in how you choose to interact with the police: talk a little …. talk a lot …. or not talk at all. What happens next may very well depend on which of those choices you’ve made.

• If you say enough to alleviate any reasonable belief in the officer’s mind (i.e. probable cause) that you have committed a crime, you will not likely be arrested. Probable cause is required for an arrest – don’t do anything to reasonably establish that lawful requirement.

• If you do get arrested, all bets are off and it’s time to get a ***real lawyer and let him speak for you. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! Be prepared to mortgage the house if necessary to pay for it. This is no time to shop for bargains. The most recent case I’m familiar with locally cost $50k and almost a year to ultimately get the charges dismissed.

• I’ve said this before, and I’ll just have to keep saying it: Surviving a deadly encounter is Problem #1. If you survive, you just may have to deal with Problem #2, which is convincing the CJ system that you’re one of the good guys. But, far too many people irrationally contemplate the possibility of Problem #2 at the expense of being mentally prepared for Problem #1. That’s just stupid.

• Bottom line: Being responsible for your own well-being isn’t for sissies.


*** A “real lawyer” in this context is one that has successfully defended a good guy in a self-defense case. There’s a good chance you will NOT have an attorney in your community with this experience and you’ll have to branch out and find one. I’ve had more training on self-defense law than the average attorney, but that’s not saying much. Attorney’s get an abbreviated block of instruction on self-defense in Law School, and in the absence of further specialized training and/or experience, know as much about the practicum of self-defense law as they do quantum physics. Let your lawyer friend(s) practice on someone else.

 

[nickj]

I agree, the author gives magnificent advice and tips, especially to situational awarenes, e.g. watching your 6 and paying attention to suspect behavior. Tarheel and Yogi, I appreciate your responses and for the food for thought.

 

[hawkeye5829]

Thanks, good information.

 

[hogdoc357]

Thanks to the moderators for posting this timely article.

 

[Mchart22]

Thank you for posting. It is very sobering.

 

[sontag_shooter]

Yogi - Thanks for sharing. Excellent perspective from someone who knows first hand.

Moderators - Thanks for working out the details to get this on the forum and still maintain the rules that have made Elsie Pea the best forum out there. This article was worth the effort you put forth.

Well said, Ale-8.

My thoughts, exactly.

 

[Old Cop]

My 30 yrs. as a working cop tells me that this article is spot on. Read and heed!!

 

[phubai]

Is the article still available? I'm getting a 404 not found error. I guess it is a little old, but I'm guessing still relevant? I'd love to read it if possible. Thanks!

 

[tick_daddy]

[URL Removed by staff - updating original post with new link to PDF.]

 

[JD]

The URL in the original post has been updated, if there's any issues viewing it please let me know.

 

[Lee6513]

Eye opening,glad to have read it.