[HowardCohodas]

The Crimson Trace LaserGuard seems a very popular item from our store. Let's see what our members intend with respect to this accessory.

As for me, I don't consider a handgun EDC qualified without a LaserGrip/LaserGuard.

 

[2gnt97gs]

Re: LG-431 - What is your situation?

Just bought one from a forum member here. Cant wait to put it on and try it out. Gonna love showing it off all decked out at the range next time I go. Its already a conversation piece.

 

[HowardCohodas]

Re: Poll: LG-431 - What are you planning?

This poll is unusual in that you can change your vote. So, if your situation changes, feel free to update it here.

 

[alfack]

I got one last week. I think it's a must have for these tiny guns with no sights. Sure, some people say "you need to learn to point shoot." To this I say BS. Point shooting with such a short pistol is much like spraying and praying. There is hardly anything to point Top that off with the limited magazine capacity and I would rather have the confidence of knowing where POI is without having to look at anything but the target.

 

[ToddG]

As for me, I don't consider a handgun EDC qualified without a LaserGrip/LaserGuard.

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[ColtsFan]

Ordered one from the elsie pea store here. Can't wait to get it and check it out.

 

[Indy Man]

I hear ppl talk how they have ordered and think they are a must have, what I would like to hear is accuracy reports, why is it a must have? Are people shooting better now that they have? would like to hear honest reports what do you all really think? lets hear some examples, distance, grouping, before I could express my plans for getting one I would like to hear more. lets hear these reports.

 

[ToddG]

Indy Man -- The laser does not affect the mechanical accuracy of the pistol (at least, as best I can tell). Any change to practical accuracy, therefore, comes from the improved visual reference you can achieve with a little red dot as opposed to lining up the minimalist sights on the LCP.

The primary benefits of the laser have noting to do with bullseye accuracy. The idea behind something like the Crimson Trace with its instinctive activation is the ability to get the gun up and into play immediately, making aimed shots without having to find and align those little sights. It allows you to shoot (and aim) from positions which would otherwise be impossible if you needed to line up the sights and the target with your eyes.

From a training standpoint, it allows you (or your shooting partner) to see if you're jerking or anticipating or heeling the gun as you break a shot. There are other training benefits as well, outlined in an article on my website written by retired police sergeant Rich Verdi.

 

[Indy Man]

Thank you ToddG, this sounds like it indeed could be beneficial in more then one respect. I will check out the article in your site.

 

[ColtsFan]

Just got my CT today and installed it. Quite a neat little device, and the LCP fits just as easy in my pocket. ;D

 

[John_Wayne777]

I got my CT unit in the mail (ordered from this site) the same day I received my LCP from my local FFL. I mounted it to my LCP immediately and it will stay there indefinitely.

The CT unit is, in my opinion, an absolute necessity on the LCP. While the sights can be used effectively under ideal circumstances, at longer ranges or in low light the CT unit offers accuracy you simply can't get with the iron sights:

 

[John_Wayne777]

From a training standpoint, it allows you (or your shooting partner) to see if you're jerking or anticipating or heeling the gun as you break a shot. There are other training benefits as well, outlined in an article on my website written by retired police sergeant Rich Verdi.

Lasers in general allow that, but personally I've found that I can't keep the laser engaged after I break the shot with the LCP. The little gun just moves too much in my hand. The only way I can keep it on throughout the recoil cycle is to tape down the control button, and even that isn't terribly successful.

 

[ToddG]

JW -- I have a similar issue, but only when I'm trying to break maximum accuracy shots. For example, I was unable to use the laser to shoot 25yd groups as I'd intended, because I could not consistently keep the laser on during the trigger pull.

It may just be a function of hand size and shape ... yours might be incompatible with the 431. Another thing to try, though, is to give the gun a serious gorilla squeeze as you shoot. It doesn't do much for pinpoint marksmanship but it's a practical method given the intended use of the gun.

The other thing you should do is let Crimson Trace know on their forum. They tend to be pretty responsive to this kind of thing. If enough people say, "Yeah, it doesn't stay on for me, either" they'll make changes for the next generation Laserguard.

 

[John_Wayne777]

Heck, I didn't know they even had a forum. Now that I do I'll certainly bend their ear on it. The problem also shows up on the J frame grips, albeit not as consistently as the LCP.

 

[Nietz]

To me and I could be wrong, it seems like the CT makes an already small grip that much smaller, to me at least a better grip on the pistol will trump any laser on it. already my pinky is hanging off and the ring finger is not fully on the grip and the way that the CT is mounted appears to crowd that grip area even more, can someone confirm/deny this? as photos can sometimes be deceiving.

Nietz

 

[John_Wayne777]

To me and I could be wrong, it seems like the CT makes an already small grip that much smaller, to me at least a better grip on the pistol will trump any laser on it. already my pinky is hanging off and the ring finger is not fully on the grip and the way that the CT is mounted appears to crowd that grip area even more, can someone confirm/deny this? as photos can sometimes be deceiving.

Nietz

It doesn't crowd the grip any more than the unmodified grip, in my opinion. The CT module doesn't feel like it's crowding me out.

 

[ToddG]

The LG-431 does force your grip down slightly. At least for me, it has not created a deleterious effect in terms of shooting. This past weekend, a few industry notables like Ken Hackathorn and Rob Haught spent some time shooting my CTC-equipped LCP and everyone had positive comments.

The upside, of course, is far greater practical accuracy at speed and the ability to use the little pocket gun without having to align target to sights to eyes.

 

[Indy Man]

The LG-431 does force your grip down slightly. At least for me, it has not created a deleterious effect in terms of shooting. This past weekend, a few industry notables like Ken Hackathorn and Rob Haught spent some time shooting my CTC-equipped LCP and everyone had positive comments.

The upside, of course, is far greater practical accuracy at speed and the ability to use the little pocket gun without having to align target to sights to eyes.

I have heard others say(not on this forum) but on another, that in a real life scenrio you do not have time to be chasing the red dot around, to much going on, stress, etc.. so just point and shoot, that is all you really are going to have time to do and chasing the red dot could get you killed. What is your opinion of such a statement?

 

[kraigster414]

When the SHTF your training will kick in. Continuous, ongoing training with the laser will render it your "default" mode" and an automatic response. One of the problems is that folks slap a laser on a gun and they may shoot 50 rounds with it every couple of years. That is hardly acceptable training if you are relying on the gun and laser for protection. Handgun proficiency is a perishable skill and that is why LE/Govt security have to continuously qualify.

 

[John_Wayne777]

I have heard others say(not on this forum) but on another, that in a real life scenrio you do not have time to be chasing the red dot around, to much going on, stress, etc.. so just point and shoot, that is all you really are going to have time to do and chasing the red dot could get you killed. What is your opinion of such a statement?

I don't mean to sound unkind here, but there are a lot of people on a lot of forums who say a lot of very stupid things.

Two prominent people I know of who use and ADVOCATE lasers strongly are Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers. Both of them know a thing or two about being in a gunfight. Both of them have been involved in training the most elite gunfighters in our nation's military. Both of them are big fans of the laser, especially for use in low light.

People who worry about "chasing the dot" are typically those who haven't used a laser much. The laser is no more a hindrance to quickly engaging a target than the Aimpoint mounted on an M4 is. The laser gives you an aiming reference ON the actual target you are trying to shoot, as opposed to trying to find and focus on a front sight that you might not be able to see....especially on a pistol as small as the LCP. The laser is to the handgun what the red dot optic is to the carbine...a quicker way to obtain an aiming reference you can use to make an accurate shot. While it is true that the laser is never perfectly still, neither are your sights. The laser simply makes small movements more noticeable on the target...but even an ordinary joe can keep the laser "wobble" within a very small area, execute a proper trigger press, and then hit exactly what he was aiming at....and that is indeed how you are supposed to use the laser.

The military uses IR lasers in concert with night vision optics because with helmet mounted NV the individual Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Marine can't get a cheek weld necessary to aim using his iron sights or reflex optic. They use these IR lasers very effectively by all accounts and to date I'm unaware of a single member of the military who was killed because they were too busy chasing the dot to actually shoot the bad guy.

I'll wager this: Take anyone who complains about "chasing the dot", arm them with an LCP and put them through a series of drills (including low light drills) using the LCP. Take another person of about the same skill level and give them an LCP equipped with a CT module and run them through the same series of drills.

I guarantee you that you will not see the CT equipped shooter lagging way behind in time measures or accuracy measures. In fact, I'd bet that the CT equipped shooter will perform significantly better.

In fact, maybe that's something Todd can make happen. Whaddya think, Todd? Do a couple of drills with the LCP sans CT and then do the same drills with the CT and compare your scores/times? Might make a good article for PT.com.....