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I want to get some opinions on what type of ammo do you recommend in your LCP for personal defense?
 
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Since my opinion seems to always be contrary, in the 380 round, over penetration is not really and issue. While under penetration is possible should one be trying to go through heavy leather or a winter type garment. One never knows how any defensive situation might evolve but my logic is a standard round FMJ makes sense for the LCP. I feel if the situation is determined lethal enough to fire a shot, first shot center mass. If that does not end the threat, follow up shots to the face. I don't present this as the only correct response, or the proper one in all situations but it seems to follow a reasonable logic for a small gun in a 380 caliber, used at a distance under 10 yards "if" there was a lethal threat. Clearly, this is not a large enough round that one shot will knock a determined attacker off his feet and a defensive shooter only wants to end the threat, not kill. My logic is reasonable penetration is probably more effective with a 380 than expansion and tissue disruption in ending the threat.
 

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DrScooter said:
Since my opinion seems to always be contrary
Whether or not I agree with you, your posts almost always bring a smile to my face. Your opening phrase brought me back to my youth when I tried to sell flower seeds door-to-door. The only training I recall was the supervisor telling us that starting the conversation by saying, "You don't want to buy any flower seeds, do you?," was probably not going to get us the result we desired.

Thanks for the nostalgia moment. I needed a smile after my disappointments resulting from the election.
 

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I too remain conflicted on deciding between FMJ and HP for SD in the 380 caliber. I have, at this point, opted for HP because I'm as much concerned about missed shots than shots that hit the mark. If I miss a shot, I'd like it to stop its travel (wall, furniture, etc) before hitting something I can't see or ricocheting and the bullet remaining in one piece. This is still an open question for me.

I am not in sympathy with the concept of "if the first shot does not stop the threat." Most shooters, except the most trained and disciplined, will fire as rapidly as they can and usually until the magazine is empty. There is lots of research that tells us, among other things, that in a post shooting debrief, the shooter cannot accurately cite the number of shots he fired. There is also lots of research that indicates that the threat can continue in spite of a lethal wound. So firing continuously until the threat has incontrovertibly ceased would seem to be a built-in survival strategy.

Few who take self defense with a gun seriously have in mind to kill someone. The purpose of self defense is to stop a threat. If you think you can try not to kill, but to wound, you are ignoring the realities of the statistics that show that in police involved shooting, only 20% of the rounds hit their target. I doubt that we can do much better.
 

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HowardCohodas said:
I too remain conflicted on deciding between FMJ and HP for SD in the 380 caliber. I have, at this point, opted for HP because I'm as much concerned about missed shots than shots that hit the mark. If I miss a shot, I'd like it to stop its travel (wall, furniture, etc) before hitting something I can't see or ricocheting and the bullet remaining in one piece. This is still an open question for me.

I am not in sympathy with the concept of "if the first shot does not stop the threat." Most shooters, except the most trained and disciplined, will fire as rapidly as they can and usually until the magazine is empty. There is lots of research that tells us, among other things, that in a post shooting debrief, the shooter cannot accurately cite the number of shots he fired. There is also lots of research that indicates that the threat can continue in spite of a lethal wound. So firing continuously until the threat has incontrovertibly ceased would seem to be a built-in survival strategy.

Few who take self defense with a gun seriously have in mind to kill someone. The purpose of self defense is to stop a threat. If you think you can try not to kill, but to wound, you are ignoring the realities of the statistics that show that in police involved shooting, only 20% of the rounds hit their target. I doubt that we can do much better.
+1

Well stated.
 

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I just picked up a box of DPX cheap from a guy that is selling tons of DPX off in different calibers. I currently have Glaser Pow'r'ball 70gr in my LCP but might switch over to the DPX.
 

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HowardCohodas said:
I too remain conflicted on deciding between FMJ and HP for SD in the 380 caliber. I have, at this point, opted for HP because I'm as much concerned about missed shots than shots that hit the mark. If I miss a shot, I'd like it to stop its travel (wall, furniture, etc) before hitting something I can't see or ricocheting and the bullet remaining in one piece. This is still an open question for me.
I may have to reevaluate my position. http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=786



 

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I can't wait to do some informal testing with it Howard.

Their specs don't indicate the barrel length used to derive those numbers but impressive - still below the Buffalo Bore 90 grain Gold Dot at 1175 fps with 276 ft. lbs of energy though no doubt the Hornady is easier on the gun and the shooter. Sounds like consistent performance regardless of test media (including 2-legged) is the big plus with the Hornady and it's within SAMMI specs. Great that we now have even more choices for quality .380 defense ammo. When will it be available for sale?
 

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It looks similar to the Power Ball round, is it available?
Mike
 

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Wow that new ammo from Hornady does look interesting!
 

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HowardCohodas said:
I too remain conflicted on deciding between FMJ and HP for SD in the 380 caliber. I have, at this point, opted for HP because I'm as much concerned about missed shots than shots that hit the mark. If I miss a shot, I'd like it to stop its travel (wall, furniture, etc) before hitting something I can't see or ricocheting and the bullet remaining in one piece. This is still an open question for me.

I am not in sympathy with the concept of "if the first shot does not stop the threat." Most shooters, except the most trained and disciplined, will fire as rapidly as they can and usually until the magazine is empty. There is lots of research that tells us, among other things, that in a post shooting debrief, the shooter cannot accurately cite the number of shots he fired. There is also lots of research that indicates that the threat can continue in spite of a lethal wound. So firing continuously until the threat has incontrovertibly ceased would seem to be a built-in survival strategy.

Few who take self defense with a gun seriously have in mind to kill someone. The purpose of self defense is to stop a threat. If you think you can try not to kill, but to wound, you are ignoring the realities of the statistics that show that in police involved shooting, only 20% of the rounds hit their target. I doubt that we can do much better.
;) I KNOW I can ;)

But, with adrenaline pumping and the physical/mental limitations that come with it, regardless of experience and general firearms training... you'd either better be REALLY close (close enough someone could argue execution) or have thousands of rounds spent doing failure drills before attempting head shots; most people stand a much better chance shooting someone else than their target.
 

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I carry Federal Law Enforcement. For the range, I have used, UMC and federal mostly. I have some Magtech, but haven't tried them.
 

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Everyone that I know that shoot 9mm keep saying that with the improved design and new components that are available, that the ole 9mm is a first rate defense round...I agree although I won't carry a 9mm as a primary piece. With all that said, the same improvements on the 9 have been copied on the .380 by the manufactures. I'm not afraid to reach for my .380 to use to stop a threat. Shot placement is the key.
 

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ragu1macrider said:
Everyone that I know that shoot 9mm keep saying that with the improved design and new components that are available, that the ole 9mm is a first rate defense round...I agree although I won't carry a 9mm as a primary piece. With all that said, the same improvements on the 9 have been copied on the .380 by the manufactures. I'm not afraid to reach for my .380 to use to stop a threat. Shot placement is the key.
the .380 is to the 9mm, as the 9mm is to a .357.

now with that out of the way, i don't see how you could state that you wouldn't use a 9mm for a primary carry piece, but aren't afraid to reach for your .380 to stop a threat.

If by nature ,you designate the 9mm as a secondary weapon of which is inferior for primary carry, then how do you justify using the .380 of which is inferior to the 9mm for secondary carry as well.

according to your own logic; if the 9mm is relegated to backup use only, then the .380 should be obsolete.

no, the .380 bullet technology isn't the same, nor has it been developed to the extent as the 9mm, that fact is obvious given the limited ammunition choices available today for the .380.

Vast improvements in design have been made,and progress in the right direction over the last year or so has been great in the regards of acceptable function from such a diminutive caliber.

If the .380 ammunition shared the same bullet development as the 9mm, then most people would have used hollow point ammunition years ago,but instead many still advocate FMJ ammo to this very day-- I for one use both.

You are correct, shot placement has always been the key to ending a threat----no matter if the caliber used is a 10mm or .380, some just work a little better. I did mean a "little" better

The .380 is a usable compromise in power and concealability, IMO.

In regards to ending a threat, it is shot placement not caliber that truly counts,and it is through practice that the true key to better shot placement is found.



best regards,
x
 
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