There is a reason that the majority of law enforcement agencies use Gold Dots in their duty ammunition. Reliable, reliable, and reliable!! A steady performer, even in .380 for backup/off duty.I occasionally research 380 ammo to see if there have been any new developments. In general, it seems you either get under-penetration with expansion, or over-penetration without it. There are a select few brands that seem to strike a good balance. I know the famous "shooting the bull" tests determined that an XTP bullet is optimal, but I prefer to stay with big-name brands, so I'm not interested in Precision One or others. Also, if you look here:
Handgun Self-Defense Ammunition - Ballistic Testing Data
Lucky Gunner tests more than 110 different 9mm, 45 ACP, 40 S&W and 380 ACP handgun self-defense ammunition loads in ballistic gel with analysis and video.www.luckygunner.com
The XTP rounds didn't do so hot. They only met the 12" minimum because of failure to expand. I was reading about Federal's HST in .380, but those don't appear to do well when shot through layers of fabric. Hornady's Critical Defense seems good in the Lucky Gunner tests, but I've seen others where it doesn't fare well. I had a dud CD round at the range once, and that's shaken my confidence a bit.
So, my current carry round for Elsie is the Gold Dots. They seem to fall a hair short of the 12" mark, but they usually expand. At this point, is it really worth switching to something else? The GDs give around 11" and 0.5" expansion, which I think it fairly respectable.
once again re-evaluating 380 carry ammo
I occasionally research 380 ammo to see if there have been any new developments. In general, it seems you either get under-penetration with expansion, or over-penetration without it. There are a select few brands that seem to strike a good balance. I know the famous "shooting the bull" tests determined that an XTP bullet is optimal, but I prefer to stay with big-name brands, so I'm not interested in Precision One or others. Also, if you look here:
The XTP rounds didn't do so hot. They only met the 12" minimum because of failure to expand. I was reading about Federal's HST in .380, but those don't appear to do well when shot through layers of fabric. Hornady's Critical Defense seems good in the Lucky Gunner tests, but I've seen others where it doesn't fare well. I had a dud CD round at the range once, and that's shaken my confidence a bit.
So, my current carry round for Elsie is the Gold Dots. They seem to fall a hair short of the 12" mark, but they usually expand. At this point, is it really worth switching to something else? The GDs give around 11" and 0.5" expansion, which I think it fairly respectable.
Handgun Self-Defense Ammunition - Ballistic Testing Data
Lucky Gunner tests more than 110 different 9mm, 45 ACP, 40 S&W and 380 ACP handgun self-defense ammunition loads in ballistic gel with analysis and video.
www.luckygunner.com
The XTP rounds didn't do so hot. They only met the 12" minimum because of failure to expand. I was reading about Federal's HST in .380, but those don't appear to do well when shot through layers of fabric. Hornady's Critical Defense seems good in the Lucky Gunner tests, but I've seen others where it doesn't fare well. I had a dud CD round at the range once, and that's shaken my confidence a bit.
So, my current carry round for Elsie is the Gold Dots. They seem to fall a hair short of the 12" mark, but they usually expand. At this point, is it really worth switching to something else? The GDs give around 11" and 0.5" expansion, which I think it fairly respectable.
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Watch this video from shooting the bull
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True. Also, if in the Lucky Gunner tests, the GD results are extremely consistent. Not quite 12", but all rounds went to similar depths and had reliable expansion. Some of the other brands were all over the place. I really want to like the HSTs, and I do in 9mm, but the results for 380 just seem disappointing. In Lucky Gunner tests, they failed to expand at all, which means the bullet is not functioning as designed. It amazes me that these big ammo companies don't seem to do more testing, and if their bullet fails, fix it.There is a reason that the majority of law enforcement agencies use Gold Dots in their duty ammunition. Reliable, reliable, and reliable!! A steady performer, even in .380 for backup/off duty.
Seems like a gimmick round to me. I saw another video where these were penetrating beyond 3 feet, which is very dangerous for a SD round.Watch this video from shooting the bull
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They make a new one called the extreme defender to lesson the penetration but I don't know of any video that shows the 380. I carry it and feel good with it. Just another option.
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Cool. In all honesty, I probably tend to overthink my ammo. Odds are, putting any round center of mass a few times will make a bad guy stop doing bad-guy things. Also, odds are very low that I'll ever have to use the gun in SD, but I'll take any advantage I can get, so I like seeing how all these various SD rounds do in controlled tests.They make a new one called the extreme defender to lesson the penetration but I don't know of any video that shows the 380. I carry it and feel good with it. Just another option.
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Hot off the press evaluation
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I chose FMJs, Prvi Partisan. Partisan loads them a bit hot.I occasionally research 380 ammo to see if there have been any new developments. In general, it seems you either get under-penetration with expansion, or over-penetration without it. There are a select few brands that seem to strike a good balance.
My threat evaluation required more than a dozen inches of penetration. I'm looking at around 20 inches.
I prefer to use calibrated gelatin. It's the industry standard.Hot off the press evaluation
Meat and other stuff is nice but is not regular enough for consistency.
I did a moderate amount of research on this a couple of years ago and came up with 2 choices that I'm satisfied with, for my Ruger LCP Gen 1.
1) Solid copper bullets for SD. After some experience with copper exhaust gaskets, I realized that they're softer than I thought, but still harder than lead. Shooting lead bullets at a steel gong, both JHP and FMJ, I found that they flatten to less than 1/8" thick. Haven't tried that with the copper yet, but will soon. I "think" they'll do a bit better.
2) Underwood Hard Cast for hiking. I live in the swamps of the Florida Nature Coast and there are a "Lot" of Wild Pigs here. I can show you acres of recently torn up ground less than 1/4 mile from my house. They very rarely - almost never - bother humans, but they certainly can and have, on occasion. A big boar can wreck a human in short order. Even out of the little .380, the Hard Cast should punch thru the skull of one of those.
I also load my Taurus 9mm and Glock 29 10mm with Hard Cast when hiking, tho' I rarely carry the Glock.
1) Solid copper bullets for SD. After some experience with copper exhaust gaskets, I realized that they're softer than I thought, but still harder than lead. Shooting lead bullets at a steel gong, both JHP and FMJ, I found that they flatten to less than 1/8" thick. Haven't tried that with the copper yet, but will soon. I "think" they'll do a bit better.
2) Underwood Hard Cast for hiking. I live in the swamps of the Florida Nature Coast and there are a "Lot" of Wild Pigs here. I can show you acres of recently torn up ground less than 1/4 mile from my house. They very rarely - almost never - bother humans, but they certainly can and have, on occasion. A big boar can wreck a human in short order. Even out of the little .380, the Hard Cast should punch thru the skull of one of those.
I also load my Taurus 9mm and Glock 29 10mm with Hard Cast when hiking, tho' I rarely carry the Glock.
I use Hornaday Critical Defense. If i do my part the ammunition will do its part. period.
For the .380 I agree. I own boxes of many popular defense rounds, all my mags are full of Buffalo Bore Hard Cast. My practice ammo is loaded with the same bullet from Rim Rock.I did a moderate amount of research on this a couple of years ago and came up with 2 choices that I'm satisfied with, for my Ruger LCP Gen 1.
1) Solid copper bullets for SD. After some experience with copper exhaust gaskets, I realized that they're softer than I thought, but still harder than lead. Shooting lead bullets at a steel gong, both JHP and FMJ, I found that they flatten to less than 1/8" thick. Haven't tried that with the copper yet, but will soon. I "think" they'll do a bit better.
2) Underwood Hard Cast for hiking. I live in the swamps of the Florida Nature Coast and there are a "Lot" of Wild Pigs here. I can show you acres of recently torn up ground less than 1/4 mile from my house. They very rarely - almost never - bother humans, but they certainly can and have, on occasion. A big boar can wreck a human in short order. Even out of the little .380, the Hard Cast should punch thru the skull of one of those.
I also load my Taurus 9mm and Glock 29 10mm with Hard Cast when hiking, tho' I rarely carry the Glock.
my 238 sig and glock 42 love perfecta its hot and gets the job done.
With 9mm guns as small as some of the 380 size guns and the cost of 380 vs 9mm why even consider a 380? 9mm is better than 380 in performance not by a lot anymore but still better. I will stick with my 9mm G43 in 9mm as my everyday carry. If I ever decide to change guns it will still be a 9mm or bigger caliber.
There isn't a 9mm pistol anywhere that is remotely even close to the size of the LCP..........Glock 43 is not even close!!! I do like Glocks though but you have to compare apples to apples. LCP and other small pocket .380's offers deep concealmentWith 9mm guns as small as some of the 380 size guns and the cost of 380 vs 9mm why even consider a 380? 9mm is better than 380 in performance not by a lot anymore but still better. I will stick with my 9mm G43 in 9mm as my everyday carry. If I ever decide to change guns it will still be a 9mm or bigger caliber.
I agree. Years ago I said I'd never own another .380 but the need to carry every day and with the small pocket pistols now I took the plunge. I found the PP are so light, thin and concealable they are a pleasure to carry. I probably carry it 60% of the time. Don't get me wrong, I prefer my bigger pistol but in those times when it's difficult to conceal a full size pistol the little PP fills that gap.There isn't a 9mm pistol anywhere that is remotely even close to the size of the LCP..........Glock 43 is not even close!!! I do like Glocks though but you have to compare apples to apples. LCP and other small pocket .380's offers deep concealment
Like someone once said, "a small pistol in your pocket is better than the larger one left at home"
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Just my humble opinion, but I never met anyone who wanted to be shot, regardless of the caliber? I spent several yrs with the Govt, taking out the trash. Caliber did not matter when things were close & ugly! Making the proper hit always mattered! If you talk to trauma surgeons, real ones who handle GSW on a regular basis, they will tell you that it is harder to fix multiple holes than it is one hole. Getting shot with a .22lr 6-7 times makes it very difficult to stop hemorrhaging and also tend to do strange things in the human body. They make right or left hand turns, bounce & tumble, can penetrate remarkable distance, in other words they make a real mess!
Barrel length is an important factor in assessing ammo. Too long results in an excessive powder burn before tThe bullet exits resulting in a loss of velocity. As Hortencia barrel results in an incomplete powder burn which also results in loss of velocity. HP expansion is dependent upon velocity. So if you are carrying a pocket pistol you cannot count on reliable expansion. The YT video in post #3 provides the best alternative to HP in a pocket pistol. Before I sold my LCP II I loaded it that ammo. However, today I only carry 9mm, a Security 9 Compact to be specific. I have more confidence in a 9mm and I have no need for deep concealment.
IMHO, there is no better round for the 380 than the Underwood XP, hands down. All things considered.
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