[rugardan]

Members of Pittsburgh City Council are proposing new legislation that would require handgun owners to report lost or stolen handguns within 24 hours or face a fine.

What do you guys think about it?

What ramifications or problems could arise from a law of this caliber.

"If passed, anyone who violates the law could face a $1,000 fine or 90 days in jail."

More importantly, wouldn't you be curbed from owning or buying any firearms if something were to happen.

Should I be worried about a .22 that I lost some 15 years ago?

 

[Krieg]

Within 24 hours of WHAT???!!!... the gun being stolen or you finding out about it? Therein lies the stupidity.

I can visualize the call now:

You: "Yes sir, this is <insert name>, I'd like to report a stolen gun."

Officer friendly: "At what time was it stolen?"

You: "I don't know"

Officer friendly: "What do you mean you don't know?... do you realize you'll get a fine if it was stolen over 24 hours ago?"

You: "OH...um it was stolen 6 minutes and 66 seconds ago by the devil! I just called him to verify the time... <eyeroll>"

Officer friendly: "Did you get a description of the perp?...."

This world has lost its collective mind... and after November 4th, we'll all be spiraling down the Socialist $hi++er at Warp Factor 10 Mr. Zulu!!!

 

[rugardan]

http://kdka.com/local/stolen.handgun.reporting.2.840078.html

The group is pushing for the state and other localities to adopt similar legislation. Who do we call to put a stop to these shenanigans?

 

[96GTS]

Members of Pittsburgh City Council are proposing new legislation that would require handgun owners to report lost or stolen handguns within 24 hours or face a fine.

What do you guys think about it?

What ramifications or problems could arise from a law of this caliber.

"If passed, anyone who violates the law could face a $1,000 fine or 90 days in jail."

More importantly, wouldn't you be curbed from owning or buying any firearms if something were to happen.

I'm sure it's within 24 hrs of discovering the gun was stolen. I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, as responsible gun owners you should be reporting it 5 MINUTES after realizing its stolen. If that gun is used later in a crime (seeing as stolen guns aren't used for much else), it saves YOU a lot of time/hassle/expenses by not having your name associated with that firearm. Nobody will do time if you dont report it, and it's probably worded as UP TO $1000 fine. Maybe they've been having issues where homie #1 gives gun to homie #2. Police come to homie #1 b/c his gun was found at the murder scene. homie #1 claims it was stolen. No action against him. I'm willing to bet they want the law on the books to go after THOSE ppl, not upstanding citizen Joe who was burged last night...

 

[rugardan]

These criminals are getting slapped on the wrists! This is only gonna hinder the law abiding citizens.

The criminals will just be released back out on the streets anyway. You think this is gonna stop hardened criminals from committing gun violence or getting their hands on guns?

Prove it, before punishing those who have firearms stolen.......

Wasn't long ago firearms didn't even need registering, what has happened to society?

I had a .22 rifle come up missing....I figured my cousin borrowed it. Never did get it back and he has since passed. Am I supposed to call the police in a panic if someone In my family takes the .22 out pinking? I've lost the paperwork on the gun anyway. ???

 

[Yukonb]

I agree with 96GTS that law should not effect law abiding gun owners. I have owned firearms my whole life and that law would not make any difference to me. As I would be reporting a lost or stolen firearm Immediately. I think its aimed in the direction 96 stated.

 

[Ooben]

Quote:
"It's a bill that targets illegal handguns used to commit crimes."

Ok, obvious question, what about legally owned handguns used to commit crimes, and what is an illegal handgun anyway? Full auto Glock?

Quote:
"We are going to give people now the opportunity to report their lost and stolen guns and we are going to be able to help our law enforcement officials with this new tool, to be able to find those people who are actually selling their guns illegally,"

So the people didn't have the opportunity before this law? And the people who don't report their missing or stolen handguns are now automatically assumed to be selling them illegally?

Quote:
"Officials say many of those shootings were committed by criminals with stolen handguns."

So their plan is to fine and or jail the people who didn't report in 24 hours their handguns missing instead of concentrating on the criminals?

Quote:
"Our argument, as was the argument in Philadelphia and Allentown, is that we are not trying to regulate the legal use of handguns, but rather the illegal use of handguns," said Councilman Bruce Krause. "And once a handgun is separated from its owner, it becomes an illegal weapon."

They are going to regulate the illegal use of handguns by fining and or jailing lawfull citizens? What if you let your nephew use your handgun for a weekend of popping squirrels, does that make it an illegal handgun?

Quote:
"Any law-abiding person with any kind of common sense is immediately going to let the police know that their handgun is in play. That it is lost,"

Uh, yeah, that's the only thing here that makes sense to me, all we need are more laws on the books not being enforced. I think if society would concentrate on the persons committing the crimes, instead of trying to eliminate the otherwise legal tools that they use we could remove 75% of the laws in place now.....
Ok, rant over...
Mike

 

[Indy Man]

Wasn't long ago firearms didn't even need registering, what has happened to society?

I did not think you had to register your firearms, am I wrong? or if you buy one new is it automatically registered?

 

[Ooben]

I did not think you had to register your firearms, am I wrong? or if you buy one new is it automatically registered?

When you buy a firearm, you fill out form #whatever. That form and the serial # of the firearm are stored together at the place you purchased it. Those records are open for inspection by the federal government at their discretion. If your firearm is recovered in the event of a crime, LE will contact the manufacture who has a record of who they sold the gun to (your dealer). LE gets in touch with your dealer to find out who they sold the gun to (that would be you). That's why this is such a stupid law, anyone with the brains of a fence post would report a missing or stolen weapon immediately, even without the penalty of law hanging over their head......
Ok, rant #2 is now over......ding ding, round #3?
Regards,
Mike

 

[Indy Man]

I did not think you had to register your firearms, am I wrong? or if you buy one new is it automatically registered?

When you buy a firearm, you fill out form #whatever. That form and the serial # of the firearm are stored together at the place you purchased it. Those records are open for inspection by the federal government at their discretion. If your firearm is recovered in the event of a crime, LE will contact the manufacture who has a record of who they sold the gun to (your dealer). LE gets in touch with your dealer to find out who they sold the gun to (that would be you). That's why this is such a stupid law, anyone with the brains of a fence post would report a missing or stolen weapon immediately, even without the penalty of law hanging over their head......
Ok, rant #2 is now over......ding ding, round #3?
Regards,
Mike

I agree with you, so your gun is already registered when you buy new so you do not have to register with local LE right? what is required if you buy a used gun, do you have to register it?

 

[rugardan]

Firearms have not been registered up until 1985 or so, correct? Pretty sure my dads 38 he had stolen had never been registered and it was bought new. The police who investigated confirmed they weren't required to be registered when they were bought. He was afraid to report it stolen because like many people he had heard unregistered weapons are illegal or whatever. So I guess there is an unregistered .38 floating around out there now.

 

[Ooben]

I agree with you, so your gun is already registered when you buy new so you do not have to register with local LE right? what is required if you buy a used gun, do you have to register it?

Well, one thing you have to realize is I'm speaking from my experience living in the state of Idaho, and I'm not going to claim to know enough legal gobbledegook to advise you on your situation where you live. Around here you don't have to do anything more than fill out the paperwork at your dealer, that's a far cry from what you have to do in Chicago or DC. As far as privately buying/selling a firearm that's something I won't do. I always run the deal through a FFL, they do a check to make sure the firearm is not stolen, if you're selling and the gun is used in a crime you have a pretty good alibi that the gun was not yours at the time (always always keep the bill of sale, whether buying or selling) It will cost a little more to run it through your FFL, pretty cheap insurance in my book....
Like they say, you read it on the internet, take it for what it's worth, if I'm wrong I'll refund your purchase price....
Mike

 

[wjkuleck]

There may be a little confusion here.

There are several jurisdictions involved in firearms laws.

The top level is the Federal Government. The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA 68) established the system of firearms dealers as we know them today, and restricted interstate transfers of firearms to Federally licensed dealers (and yes, collectors, but let's not get into the C&R FFL right now). Changes in the law in 1986 under the Gun Owner's Protection Act (GOPA) permit you to purchase long guns from a dealer in another state, but not handguns.

The Federal paperwork is the Form 4473. It does not constitute "registration," as there is no way to find out what firearms you have by means of the 4473, as those forms are, by law, not to be compiled by the Feds in any way. The only use they have is to allow forward tracing, i.e., manufacturer/importer to dealer to customer. There the paper trail stops, at least formally, for the Feds. (Yes, I know about the multiple handgun purchase form, but let's set that aside too for now).

The next level of jurisdiction is the State level. Here's where the ugly head of "registration" raises itself from the slime. Many states, e.g., Michigan, New York, require that you complete a form (at least for handguns) that is entered into a statewide database whenever you purchase a firearm. That allows the state to know exactly what you have, so long as it came via a dealer. In some states with this system you must also report private transfers. This is registration.

Finally, in some areas we have local jurisdictional intrusion into our rights. For example, Cleveland Heights, Ohio required that all handguns be registered with the City (this, in the absence of any State law or requirement). I once inquired of the Sgt in charge of registration as to the nature of the records they kept; he showed me a shoebox with a handful of 3x5 cards. The PD recognized that the law was ignored, and they had no interest in enforcing it anyway (or, so I inferred). Ohio recently passed a preemption law that requires local jurisdictions to back off to the State level in terms of firearms regulation. It remains to be seen if Cleveland, for example, gives up its AW ban in conformance with the new state law.

As has been indicated earlier, "Your mileage will vary." It's your responsibility to know ahd understand the laws that are applicable to you. The NRA-ILA has a compendium that's a place to start. Most State Rifle & Pistol Associations will also have legal guidelines for their state's citizens.

Here in Ohio we are relatively vigilant, with "shall-issue" carry, the newly-enacted castle doctrine, no state registration, no state restrictions on firearms type, no restrictions on private sales, and so on.

Pity the poor Californian, by contrast.

Regards,

Walt

 

[gcwimmer]

Some insurance company's will cover stolen firearms, if they don't NRA membership will, with some limitations, a good $25 a year investment besides protecting gun owners rights.

 

[David Henry]

In order to insure your guns you will need to provide S/N's. No big deal if you are not paranoid about who knows what you have in your closet. If someone breaks into my house and steals my guns.......I want them back!
Therefore I will report them missing. I realy sounds like common sense to me, unless I have missed something.......

 

[yankee2500]

Check with your insurance co. as to how much they will cover, usually there is a $ limit, and if you have many guns they are not all covered unless you have a rider on your policy, to cover the $ amount you feel it will cost to replace all your guns. Not just to theft but fire. John

 

[vandave]

The sad assumption is that you will get your gun back if it was stolen and located. IF the weapon was used, or suspected to have been used, in the creation of a crime, the police will hold the gun forever as evidence. :-[

 

[96GTS]

The sad assumption is that you will get your gun back if it was stolen and located. IF the weapon was used, or suspected to have been used, in the creation of a crime, the police will hold the gun forever as evidence. :-[

You can give the report to your ins. Stolen property report lists the value of the item(s) stolen according to the owner. Assuming it's not a heirloom piece, it can be replaced if you choose to...

 

[Legionnaire]

Possible positive result of such a law: It might cut down on "straw man" sales, where someone purchases a gun on behalf of someone else, and claims the gun was stolen if it is subsequently used in a crime and traced back to the original purchaser.

Possible negative result of such a law: An otherwise innocent gun owner, who only shoots occasionally, has a gun stolen from a cabinet and doesn't realize it for months; doesn't report it, and is prosecuted when the gun is subsequently used in a crime and traced back to him or her. Particularly troublesome to collectors who have a significant number of firearms. How often does one do a complete inventory?

Question: Is such a law precluded by PA's state preemption laws?

 

[96GTS]

Possible negative result of such a law: An otherwise innocent gun owner, who only shoots occasionally, has a gun stolen from a cabinet and doesn't realize it for months; doesn't report it, and is prosecuted when the gun is subsequently used in a crime and traced back to him or her. Particularly troublesome to collectors who have a significant number of firearms. How often does one do a complete inventory?

If you have an "inventory" of guns, I'd assume they would be in some sort of safe. And if a thief stumbles across a litter of guns, he's not gonna choose one, he'll grab as many as he can carry, b/c thats the theif mentality. You might not realize that one pistol is gone, but I would hope you'd notice that 5 or 6 guns are missing.