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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Way, way back I brougt up this subject at ktog.org and I think it's worth mentioning here as well.....when carrying the LCP in your left side pants pocket in a traiditonal pocket holster, keep in mind the LCP mag release button is facing out. There is a possibility (and it's happened to me with my LCP (I am LH) that if you brush up against a hard object, worse if you come in full blown contact with a hard object, that the force could accidently compress your mag release button causing the mag in the gun to drop. Not a good thing and in most cases you would never know it until it was too late. To the best of my knowledge, the only pocket holster maker that covers the mag release on the P3AT is Grandfather Oak (not sure if they make holsters for the LCP). The particular Grandfather Oak I am referring to is a Kydex pocket holster and the material covering the mag release button acts as a shroud. It has a little "spring" to it allowing the shrouded portion to take the hit and not the magazine button. Some LH P3AT owners elected to sand down their mag button to allow safe use of conventional pocket holsters. I am not a big proponent of that and have no desire to try it with my LCP.

Just something to think about if you are LH (as if being LH isn't hard enough). I have asked one of our comercial sponsors if they could tweak their design to replicate the Grandfather Oak. Bottom line if you are LH, have a side pocket holster, and think you are ok, don't worry about it. For me though, it's one less thing to worry about.
 

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It seams to me that if one got a pocket holster with 1/8" closed-cell foam padding on the "outside" (this will completely hide the outline of the piece) that the padding would protect against that "malfunction".
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
MountainGator said:
It seams to me that if one got a pocket holster with 1/8" closed-cell foam padding on the "outside" (this will completely hide the outline of the piece) that the padding would protect against that "malfunction".
Not so I am afraid. That is what I have been using - the DeSantis Superfly with the optional velcro-affixed outline hider. Twice now I have noticed that my mag has popped out. I no longer use this holster.
 
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Designing a leather holster which covers the mag release button is going to make the issue significantly worse. The reason is that you will have leather in direct contact with the release button then. (An example of that is the holster that kraigster414 mentions, though his was not made from leather.) For a leather/other material holster, you want one that does not allow for that coverage. A properly designed holster will cut around that mag release button, whether it's a pocket holster or an IWB or OWB style of holster. Take a look at various designs, and talk with some of the makers, i.e., Milt Sparks holsters, Alessi holsters, Del Fatti holsters, and I'm certain you'll get the same response from them.

There's a number of cures for this on the LCP. You can file down the release button a little at a time. There's a new mag release button that's been designed for the Kel-Tec's, so it's likely it will fit/work on the LCP.

kraigster414, I've only had two reports of an instance such as you're trying to describe here. (I've made over 2000 pocket holsters over the last few years.) You were one of those. In one of those instances, the cause was borne from the person having a tendency to run into things.

Our own testing proved that you had to have DIRECT contact with the mag release button. It did not disengage the mag with only a "brushing". And if it does disengage the magazine by just a "brushing," and/or with the direct contact, the issue is with the mag release button (unless you have a poorly designed holster). The holster maker cannot fix a gun functioning issue per se. They can accomodate for it in most instances.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
K-Man said:
Designing a leather holster which covers the mag release button is going to make the issue significantly worse. True and perhaps we should limit this discussion to Kydex pocket holsters vice leather, the latter creating a challenge as you indicated. On the other hand, Kydex has the potential to address without degrading functionality (emphasis on "potential"). In the case of the Kydex Grandfather Oak. I did not ask for a modifcation of the existing design. It just so happens it was designed that way and the added benefit to me as a lefty was that the kydex acted as a buffer against the mag release. Bump into something and the kydex takes the hit, not the button. Additionally, in no way did it interefere with the release of the gun from the holster I carried my P3AT in one for years.

kraigster414, I've only had two reports of an instance such as you're trying to describe here. (I've made over 2000 pocket holsters over the last few years.) You were one of those. In one of those instances, the cause was borne from the person having a tendency to run into things.I may not be the most coordinated person in the world but I don't think I have any more tendency to run into things than anyone else. My experience with LCP mags popping out has been limited to the DeSantis soft Superfly holster and I bring this subject up only as a caution to my fellow lefties who may not be aware that there is the potential for this to happen. I do not recommend grinding down the LCP's mag release (it's too darn pretty the way it is).

Our own testing proved that you had to have DIRECT contact with the mag release button. It did not disengage the mag with only a "brushing". And if it does disengage the magazine by just a "brushing," and/or with the direct contact, the issue is with the mag release button (unless you have a poorly designed holster). Brushing is a relative term. From my experience, it was not necessary to hit a brick wall broadside for the mag to drop and there is nothing otherwise faulty with my mag release. Normal tension..

This is nothing you have to lose sleep over but if you are left handed it is something you might want to be sensitive to. Odds are you will not have a problem with any well made, well-designed holster, left handed or right handed. Keep in mind too, it's not just the design of the holster that plays a part but clothing, physical built, level of activity etc. that can increase your odds.
 
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In my terminology of "DIRECT," I was referring to direct impact/pressure applied to the mag button. A mere brushing/sliding by of pressure, such as an upholstered chair, the steering wheel of a vehicle, or similar, did not cause the button to disengage the mag.

The filing down of the mag button can be done with relative ease and if you use a high grade of sandpaper, you can achieve a very smooth finish, making it nearly impossible to notice.

If the mag release button is causing the mag to disengage, with even the slightest pressure (however applied), it's a disfunction of the button/gun. I agree that a person's level of activity may contribute to a higher level of occurence.
 

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kraigster414 said:
MountainGator said:
It seams to me that if one got a pocket holster with 1/8" closed-cell foam padding on the "outside" (this will completely hide the outline of the piece) that the padding would protect against that "malfunction".
Not so I am afraid. That is what I have been using - the DeSantis Superfly with the optional velcro-affixed outline hider. Twice now I have noticed that my mag has popped out. I no longer use this holster.
My Bad. I meant to type 1/4" closed cell foam. My Hip Pocket holster has 1/4". Because of the Hip Pocket reverse, the mag release is next to the foam (for RH). While I haven't had my LCP long enough to really experience everything that can happen, I can push all I want to with my thump and I haven't yet been able to pop the mag. I am not familier with the Superfly or the outline hider. is it 1/8" or 1/4" is it open-cell (foam rubber) or closed-cell foam?
 

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never knew a left hander yet that wasn't screwed up ;D ;D ;D God only made us left handers to piss u right handers off.

Personally I carry in left pocket 24/7 my kahr pm9 and it has never release a magazine, nor has my lcp when I carried it. I always felt carrying in the rear pocket was just a nice place for a magazine to release ALOT..
 

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Now that I have my refitted LCP back, I notice the mag button is a lot longer than before - and that it uses all that length to pop the mag loose. It takes a lot more than before to do that.

I use a Nemesis pocket holster left side, and haven't noticed it being a problem - but then, I don't carry at work bumping into things. If I'm being that active, I would probably carry IWB or tucked to get it out of the way. Pocket carry restricts my ability to kneel or crawl under things like my Jeep when changing a flat.

Perhaps the application doesn't really match up with the activity and a different solution for carry should be used. If your pants wear too much, jeans especially will show it, and the outline of a pistol will be more of a problem than the mag.
 
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Another lefty here . . . just got a DeSantis Nemesis for Christmas and am really dissatisfied with it, but not because it allows the mag to release (yet). Based on its appearance in my left front pocket, I imagine the Super Fly would look like a loaf of bread in addition to covering the mag release.

I am thinking about one of the leather, left rear pocket holsters with a full backing that covers the LCP and looks like a wallet. As I understand it, the LCP sits in your pocket with grip to the outside and you would reach around palm out to draw it. Mag release would be against the left cheek. I don't know if this would work any better or not. Much research is called for here.
 
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N2LCP

Thanks, that is helpful. The wallet holster looks to be much more functional than my Nemesis.
 

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It works for me. I have tried a bunch of holsters, and i really like rear pocket carry best. When seated, the holster in your pocket rides in the area between the back of a chair & the seat. Very comfortable and feels exactly like a wallet. The holster stays put during a draw, and with a bit of practice is very fast & natural. The back panel makes it look just like a wallet when you carry. It's totally concealed carry, and fits with my LCP in every pair of pants (dress & casual) that I own.

I have three wallet holsters - 2 leather (black & Tan) & one a Kydex front with a leather rear panel made for me by K&D. It's not pretty, but is very functional, and the kydex faces inward & resists holding moisture next to the gun during hot weather.
 

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cosgun said:
N2LCP

Thanks, that is helpful. The wallet holster looks to be much more functional than my Nemesis.
notice the fella is not wearing jeans. The rear pocket holster that I had which looks identical, would not go into my rear jeans p[ocket without sticking out at the top and you could read the serial numbers off of my kt 380 when I carried it that way. I did not like it at all.
 

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jocko,
I believe I recall hearing/reading that a Levi jeans rear pocket was a bit narrower, and might not work. I do not have any problems with my Wrangler jeans, and a couple of other brands. The serial number situation was only an issue with the Kel Tec number on the back end of the frame. Even then to see the gun you would have to be looking straight down my back. Not likely someone I would be concerned with would be that close to me. I used both a leather Guru & a Leather K&D with my Kel Tecs, and I am now using leather Guru & a Kydex K&D with no issues from either holster brand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I think it's a very clever design but as Jocko indicated, back pocket carry does not work with all pants and call me paranoid but if too loose, I'd be a little concerned about pickpocketing. It's one thing to lose a wallet, it's another to lose a gun. With side pants pocket carry, the guy has to be good. Also for the military folks, there's OPSEC to be considered, "why is the guy carrying TWO wallets in his back pockets?" An item in the side pocket could be anything. Just me, maybe I am getting too deep into the woods.
 

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N2LCP said:
jocko,
I believe I recall hearing/reading that a Levi jeans rear pocket was a bit narrower, and might not work. I do not have any problems with my Wrangler jeans, and a couple of other brands. The serial number situation was only an issue with the Kel Tec number on the back end of the frame. Even then to see the gun you would have to be looking straight down my back. Not likely someone I would be concerned with would be that close to me. I used both a leather Guru & a Leather K&D with my Kel Tecs, and I am now using leather Guru & a Kydex K&D with no issues from either holster brand.
no problem, I wear harley jeans and have no idea who makes them and have a pair of 5.11 jeans and it would not work in my rear pocket. It fit alright but stuck out where indeed you could read the serial number off the back of the kt,now if you can read the serial number, you can see that it is a gun,. Actually I had it called to my attention real fast by one of my riding buddies even.

I hate to think I have to buy special jeans to carry that holster, but you might have better luck than I did. Just not for me for sure.
 

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cosgun said:
Another lefty here . . . just got a DeSantis Nemesis for Christmas and am really dissatisfied with it, but not because it allows the mag to release (yet). Based on its appearance in my left front pocket, I imagine the Super Fly would look like a loaf of bread in addition to covering the mag release.
Get what works for you, but the Superfly does not look like a "loaf of bread." In fact, it nicely breaks up the gun's outline in a front pocket, just looks like a small rectangle shape, like a wallet, in your front jeans pocket.
 

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maximus83 said:
cosgun said:
Another lefty here . . . just got a DeSantis Nemesis for Christmas and am really dissatisfied with it, but not because it allows the mag to release (yet). Based on its appearance in my left front pocket, I imagine the Super Fly would look like a loaf of bread in addition to covering the mag release.
Get what works for you, but the Superfly does not look like a "loaf of bread." In fact, it nicely breaks up the gun's outline in a front pocket, just looks like a small rectangle shape, like a wallet, in your front jeans pocket.
probably right there and think abut this. How many times do you check a persons pocket when you see them. Are you looking for a gun in that front pocket, ???Are you looking for that gun imprint in that front p[ocket??? If your honest the answer is NO. I carry my kahr PM9 24/7 in my front pocket and it prints more than an lcp but i have never been challenged ever and I sit many times with LEO for coffee every day. People are just not looking in that pocket area direction let alone with the assumtion that you are carrying. I think we as carriers over emphasize the object in our pocket as being a flashing lite to everyone and it just is not so. FWIW IMO
 
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