[blacksteel]

I am looking to install a lanyard onto the LCP. I know the lanyard idea may sound strange to some of you, but those out there who were in the service, grunts especially, should be able to relate.

I am looking to carry on the belt while backcountry skiing. Pocket carry is no good. I originally though coat pocket, or even back pocket, but to access from any pocket I would have to unzip my pocket and draw while wearing gloves. I would have to keep my pocket zipped if I wanted the pistol secure.

My setup is a desantis dual carry (worn OWB) on a wilderness tactical 1.5" belt. The only retention system is a button thumb snap, and this makes me uncomfortable. While moving around, I don't even want to think about what would happen if the pistol were to accidentally drop in the forest and I kept skiing for hours without noticing. I am looking for something redundant to secure this pistol.

Right now I am leaning towards a Keltec lanyard kit. I have been told that the pin that secures the Keltec lanyard is the same size as the corresponding pin on the elsie. I would use the metal loop only, ditching the useless neck cord. I would then retrofit with a proper quality pistol lanyard.

Has anyone tried this? For that matter, has anyone used the KT pocket clip kit on the LCP? It uses the same pin to afix as this lanyard. If anyone has any experience with this mod, you would be doing me a great service by posting a reply.

If anyone has any suggestions, please post them here. I am open to all suggestions because the procedure I described is what I am leaning toward but I have not committed to anything yet.

 

[jgo]

I can relate and I understand your concerns. What I don't understand is why you want to carry a POCKET gun on your belt. If you are going to carry a gun while skiing, why not carry something that has enough punch to get through all the winter clothing? A 380 is should be a backup or carried when you, absolutely, can carry nothing larger. They perform best in nudist parks.

 

[Match10]

I carry my Elsie OTB, and there is nothing wrong with that. I would like amore secure holster for it, as well.

 

[MountainGator]

I can relate and I understand your concerns. What I don't understand is why you want to carry a POCKET gun on your belt. If you are going to carry a gun while skiing, why not carry something that has enough punch to get through all the winter clothing? A 380 is should be a backup or carried when you, absolutely, can carry nothing larger. They perform best in nudist parks.

When I'm in the Backcountry (skiing or hiking) the threat that I carry to be protected against sure won't be stooped by a .380. I carry .357Mag/.44Mag/.460S&W (depending on the season & where I am).

 

[DesertPunisher425]

Yeah... I can't really relate to a lanyard...

I've NEVER carried anything on a lanyard while concealed; your holster should be secure enough that you don't need one. And if it's in a pocket, it shouldn't be able to just fall out.

As for carrying a duty weapon; rarely do I use a lanyard... they snag on things and get in the way much more than they help to make sure you don't lose your pistol. The holster is what's supposed to keep the pistol secure to your body. If it's not up to the job, you need a new holster, not a tie-down.

But, if you must... I think you'd be best suited to figuring out a way to secure it by the butt of the pistol grip. Any other place will be more in the way than necessary.

 

[78CJ5]

It would come in handy on a fishing trip, sure would hate to drop elsie overboard.

 

[DesertPunisher425]

It would come in handy on a fishing trip, sure would hate to drop elsie overboard.

You should have it in a holster secure enough that dropping it overboard isn't a concern. If the holster isn't secure enough for that, and you use a lanyard, then when something snags on the lanyard the pistol will surely fall out... defeating the purpose to an extent. Sure you'll still have it at the end of the lanyard, but it will be dangling in the water or out in view for the world to see (generally not that big of an issue when fishing though)... where had you just had a more secure method of carry in the first place, all of those issues would have been avoided.

Lanyard = Solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

There is a reason why most PD's don't use them any more, and most in the military don't use them anymore either (although some still hold tight to the green flop-top holster with lanyard; most go with a positive retention thigh holster).

 

[icl]

I put the KelTec clip on my Elsie. The pin was a little bigger, but fit just fine. The clip itself is a lightly different angle, but is easily "persuadeable".......Seems like the lanyard pin would fit fine, if it is the same one.

FWIW. I took the clip back off when I started wearing the Elsie in an actual holster......it interfered. The OEM pin still fit fine. 8)

 

[blacksteel]

Thank you for all of your insights. I want to clarify first of all that the lanyard is NOT something I intend to use for everyday carry. When I am CCW in normal everyday situations I do not plan to use a lanyard. It is only in those situations where I feel the redundant securing of gear is prudent.

For example, skiing. I am wearing goggles that impede peripheral vision, especially straight down at my feet. I am wearing headgear that covers my ears so hearing is drastically diminished. I have thick layers of clothes so I would not be able to feel anything if something were to say, fall out of my pocket. Cold weather in general turns your body numb. An object falling on powder snow makes no noise. Plus, the whole point of skiing in the backcountry is to get myself in the "zone" and have fun. My primary mental focus is on terrain, compass, altimeter and map, and my gear is something that I prefer decidedly NOT to think about, hence securing everything with tie-downs in advance.

As to carrying a bigger gun, yes, admittedly that is always an option. Of course, there is something to be said for going light and compact for activities like hiking, cross country skiing, climbing, etc. The trend for outdoor gear in general has always been "lighter weight" synonymous with "improved model". A really diminutive gun like the LCP shines in this regard even though the LCP was probably never designed as a "backpacker's" gun. At the very least the size alone of the LCP will NEVER impede your mobility, no matter how it's worn. Believe me, I have taken caliber into account because of the penetration factor (winter clothing), and considered something like the Taurus titanium .357.

I cannot say for LE but in the military the pistol lanyard is still used. I know from personal experience that the Ranger battallions per SOP tie-down EVERYTHING. In fact, they are so strict about it that having the incorrect TYPE of tie-down on your gear is punishable. SF guys do what feels right to the individual, some guys tie down all of their gear, some guys none. On patrols in Iraq the trend seems to be that a lot of guys opt not to wear a lanyard on their pistols. I was issued a lanyard with my M9 and always wore it, but I have always been a tie-down guy. I guess it's because Ranger bat was my primary unit.

 

[blacksteel]

It would come in handy on a fishing trip, sure would hate to drop elsie overboard.

You should have it in a holster secure enough that dropping it overboard isn't a concern. If the holster isn't secure enough for that, and you use a lanyard, then when something snags on the lanyard the pistol will surely fall out... defeating the purpose to an extent. Sure you'll still have it at the end of the lanyard, but it will be dangling in the water or out in view for the world to see (generally not that big of an issue when fishing though)... where had you just had a more secure method of carry in the first place, all of those issues would have been avoided.

Lanyard = Solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

There is a reason why most PD's don't use them any more, and most in the military don't use them anymore either (although some still hold tight to the green flop-top holster with lanyard; most go with a positive retention thigh holster).

Desertpunisher:

What carry options are there for the LCP that I should consider? I mean something more sercure than a leather belt holster with a thumb-break? As to securing it by the butt, yes it would be ideal but I see no way to do so without drastically altering said firearm. Can you think of anything high-speed to work around this?

 

[DesertPunisher425]

It would come in handy on a fishing trip, sure would hate to drop elsie overboard.

You should have it in a holster secure enough that dropping it overboard isn't a concern. If the holster isn't secure enough for that, and you use a lanyard, then when something snags on the lanyard the pistol will surely fall out... defeating the purpose to an extent. Sure you'll still have it at the end of the lanyard, but it will be dangling in the water or out in view for the world to see (generally not that big of an issue when fishing though)... where had you just had a more secure method of carry in the first place, all of those issues would have been avoided.

Lanyard = Solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

There is a reason why most PD's don't use them any more, and most in the military don't use them anymore either (although some still hold tight to the green flop-top holster with lanyard; most go with a positive retention thigh holster).

Desertpunisher:

What carry options are there for the LCP that I should consider? I mean something more secure than a leather belt holster with a thumb-break? As to securing it by the butt, yes it would be ideal but I see no way to do so without drastically altering said firearm. Can you think of anything high-speed to work around this?

Short of putting a hole in the pistol... not really anything easy...

If you're any good with a metal work (or willing to pay someone who is), the plug in the butt of the pistol could be replaced with a metal version (Aluminum would be your best bet) that incorporates an attachment point for a lanyard. Use a screw through the hole in the back-strap that is already existing to secure the new plug. If the fit is paid close attention to, the screw should do nothing more than ensure the new plug doesn't work it's way out. If you go his route, it would be a wise idea to put a little blue loctite on the screw.

 

[DesertPunisher425]

Thank you for all of your insights. I want to clarify first of all that the lanyard is NOT something I intend to use for everyday carry. When I am CCW in normal everyday situations I do not plan to use a lanyard. It is only in those situations where I feel the redundant securing of gear is prudent.

For example, skiing. I am wearing goggles that impede peripheral vision, especially straight down at my feet. I am wearing headgear that covers my ears so hearing is drastically diminished. I have thick layers of clothes so I would not be able to feel anything if something were to say, fall out of my pocket. Cold weather in general turns your body numb. An object falling on powder snow makes no noise. Plus, the whole point of skiing in the back-country is to get myself in the "zone" and have fun. My primary mental focus is on terrain, compass, altimeter and map, and my gear is something that I prefer decidedly NOT to think about, hence securing everything with tie-downs in advance.

As to carrying a bigger gun, yes, admittedly that is always an option. Of course, there is something to be said for going light and compact for activities like hiking, cross country skiing, climbing, etc. The trend for outdoor gear in general has always been "lighter weight" synonymous with "improved model". A really diminutive gun like the LCP shines in this regard even though the LCP was probably never designed as a "backpacker's" gun. At the very least the size alone of the LCP will NEVER impede your mobility, no matter how it's worn. Believe me, I have taken caliber into account because of the penetration factor (winter clothing), and considered something like the Taurus titanium .357.

I cannot say for LE but in the military the pistol lanyard is still used. I know from personal experience that the Ranger battalions per SOP tie-down EVERYTHING. In fact, they are so strict about it that having the incorrect TYPE of tie-down on your gear is punishable. SF guys do what feels right to the individual, some guys tie down all of their gear, some guys none. On patrols in Iraq the trend seems to be that a lot of guys opt not to wear a lanyard on their pistols. I was issued a lanyard with my M9 and always wore it, but I have always been a tie-down guy. I guess it's because Ranger bat was my primary unit.

I can see your point about location and activities. But personally, I wouldn't be carrying an LCP on a trek in the back country. You mentioned a titanium .357... go one better and get a scandium (sp?) .357. If you're not familiar, it's basically an alloy that contains several different metals, making it lighter than titanium. Either way, you could more easily find a positive retention holster so you wouldn't need the lanyard, and even if you still wanted the lanyard, a tie down point wouldn't be difficult to come up with on a revolver.

Now as far as those tie-down knots at Batt... Talking about a bowline with a half hitch? ;D
You are right about those tie-downs... some have merit, some not so much. But, as with everything in the military, you have to focus on the lowest common denominator; which means there is some idiot who will without a doubt lose his canteen cup!

 

[78CJ5]

DP 425 I guess you would not understand the art of dispatching a shark in the gulf. LCP is easier to use than a 410 shotgun.

 

[blacksteel]

Hey Desertpunisher,

I just did a search for the scandium revolvers. 12 ounces is really impressive for the punch this gun delivers. Thanks for the tip. I need to do some more research but this is something that everyone should at least look at as a comfortable carry option, and not just limited to carrying in the woods.

 

[DesertPunisher425]

Hey Desertpunisher,

I just did a search for the scandium revolvers. 12 ounces is really impressive for the punch this gun delivers. Thanks for the tip. I need to do some more research but this is something that everyone should at least look at as a comfortable carry option, and not just limited to carrying in the woods.

No problem... Now the price is no where near an LCP, but I figure for what you're really getting... is $600 or so a bad deal? I think not! I've considered it myself but I always end up saying "I already have a P229 and G27; do I really NEED another pistol?" And the answer is always no... at least until I saw an LCP sitting around for $275 at the local PD supply store and I'd been in the situation where I needed something smaller than my G27 numerous times throughout the summer (work related; when not on duty I can always change my attire to suit carrying unnoticed). But now that I have this, if I buy anymore pistols (.22 the only exception) I may have to sell something off; I don't need anymore firearms sitting around collecting dust than I already have (Like my $1k AR-15 pistol; more useful as a novelty than anything else).

I was very much looking forward to the SIG P250 but the reviews I'm reading from owners aren't really confidence building. I bought the Glock because SIG didn't make a full power caliber pistol in sub-compact sizing; at the time Glock was the only legit, reliable business in town for sub-compact .40's. Well now there's XD and M&P (their compact is close in size and weight to the G27-just a hair bigger)... and the SIG P250 still has not been introduced in the promised sub-compact size, nore are there conversion kits available. To make matters worse, as far as I know it's been a year and they only have 9mm compact, .40 compact and .45 full size available; meaning they have yet to release 9mm, .357SIG, .40 and .45 sub-compact as well as 9mm and .40 full size AND .45 compact. Disappointing really... my P229 is perhaps the most reliable firearm I own; all of the M11's (P228's) I've seen have held up far better than any M9's (Beretta 92). SIG is really letting me down on this one!

Anyhow, back on topic!! Scandium 5 and 6 shooters are the way to go for light weight defense with gobs of stopping power. They will work as well on predators of the four legged type as they will the two legged type. As I said, only downside is the massive abuse your hands and wrists will take. But as long as you can control it; the pain from shooting it shouldn't be a worry cause it's going to hurt whatever is at the business end A LOT more than you (provided you hit it). And on the plus side, you can use .38 to practice with. Maybe the day will come when I find an irresistable deal and pick on up...

 

[blacksteel]

Alright, a lightweight .357 is definitely in my future. Oddly enough I was saving up for a Python to be my next purchase. Not for carrying but for range use. I still want one of these, but I might go with a lightweight alloy snub first, haven't decided yet. You know, I own five pistols and not one revolver, isn't that something? Let's hope in the meantime I don't offend any bears, although I'll bet I could really put the hurt on a pack of wild squirrels.

Seriously though the LCP will give you an adequate fighting chance if there's some lunatic after you in the woods. Reality is, violent attacks aren't too commonplace in remote forests but there have been documented cases. Maybe more so than in populated areas a carry permit is a necessity because if you are in trouble out there it really is a matter of self-reliance. Women especially should take heed. Also, it occurred to me, if you are rendered immobile for some reason (some form of injury comes to mind) and are missing for long enough to have a search party looking for you, firing three shots in the air can be heard probably further away than say, blowing a whistle or yelling. Not that you should rely on your pistol as your only distress signal but more as a last resort item in your bag of tricks, the most obvious thing being if you are SOL and have a cell phone with reception to make a phone call.

I'd like to test drive some of these titanium and scandium guns one of these days to get a feel for them. Also, would love to see the difference a ported barrel makes on something so lightweight. .45 and 7.62x25 are the two hardest hitting caliber pistols I currently own. I wonder which one would be more effective against bears? On penetration alone I would have to give the edge to the 7.62 so long as it competes against a standard load .45. Speaking of bears, it would be a very serious matter to experience firsthand but would be funny as hell to watch on video, a skier and a bear throwing down. I picture a wintry hill with a gently sloping powdery slope, some guy describing a gentle arc in a graceful telemark turn, then, all of sudden...bear attack!

 

[MountainGator]

.45 and 7.62x25 are the two hardest hitting caliber pistols I currently own. I wonder which one would be more effective against bears? On penetration alone I would have to give the edge to the 7.62 so long as it competes against a standard load .45. Speaking of bears, it would be a very serious matter to experience firsthand but would be funny as hell to watch on video, a skier and a bear throwing down. I picture a wintry hill with a gently sloping powdery slope, some guy describing a gentle arc in a graceful telemark turn, then, all of sudden...bear attack!

According to this link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x25mm_Tokarev the 7.62x25 has a max of 560 ft.-lbs. M.E. with a 85 gr FMJ slug. This light weight slug (about what Miss Pea throws) and the low M.E. may do anything more than “P.O.” a average size brown(/black) bear.

A Buffalo Bore .45 ACP +P with a 230 gr. FMJFN @ 950 fps ony has 461 ft.-lbs. M.E., less M.E., but a little better due to the slug weight, but still not hear enough to be effective against a bear that has decided to attack you.

If you're talking bear protection you're talking .44 Mag +P, and a couple rounds that are effective against an angry brown are BB’s 300 gr. Speer JFN (1300 fps / 1126 ft.-lbs. M.E.) and their 270 gr. Speer Uni Core (1450 fps / 1260 ft.-lbs.) If you don't think you can make the head shot.

Now if you want to talk Grizzlies (the bear variety, not the University of Montana Football Team) then imvho, you’re talking .454 Casull that gives 1600~1700 ft.-lbs. of M.E. with 300~350 gr. slugs, or better yet, a .460 S&W throwing 360 grs. @ 1900 fps for 2860 ft.-lbs. M.E.

But as a backcountry skier, I doubt that you have much to worry about, as all bears hibernate during snow season.

 

[blacksteel]

Thanks Mountaingator. I have been looking at the Smith & Wesson scandium line of revolvers lately, and they do offer .44. I am going to check out the .44 handguns as these alloy revolvers are true "trail" guns in every sense.

 

[DesertPunisher425]

Mountain... I think you missed some important parts... first, I'm pretty sure the 230gr slug from the .45 doesn't produce the most energy; in a great number of cartridges the max weight bullet does not give the highest ME... it's usually something a little bit lighter. But I didn't want to research it because you really have to look at too much info! Anyway!!!

The .357 isn't a bad round for protection from wild-life; it's a good compromise on size and recoil in the ultra light revolvers, and some of the defensive loadings in .357 produce rather high energy levels. The key is to get a loading that has medium expansion; most defensive loadings in .357 are intended for humans and there for have rapid expansion so they can dump the energy quicker and minimize how much over-penetration you're dealing with. On a bear, you don't want the round to stop at 15", you want a good mix of expansion and penetration. Really, the .357, .41 or the .44 will do a decent job on a bear. For Black's uses, it doesn't sound like he can just grab the biggest and baddest gun available and take off for the weekend. Which is why I said .357... of course .41 would be good too but it's not as readily available. Anyway .44 is pretty size-able to hide and would be downright uncontrollable in one of those ultra light weight 5-shooters.

 

[blacksteel]

I am considering right now:

S&W model 340 M&P Centenial (no crimson sight) .357. This is the stripped down hammerless version with stainless cylinder. It costs roughly $100 less than the titanium cylinder version of the 340 and weighs only 1.3 oz. more. I don't see a reason to spend extra coin just to shave off 1 oz.

S&W 329 "Night Guard" in .44. Another scandium handgun with steel cylinder, this one weighs 29.3 oz. and is considerably more expensive.

I've written off Taurus completely.

For Black's uses, it doesn't sound like he can just grab the biggest and baddest gun available and take off for the weekend.

Actually, I just moved to a state (PA) that is gun-friendly which I am quite happy about. Open carry is legal here, and there is no law against carrying something like a rifle in the state forests. But seeing as how I am a fan of the LCP, I will always lean toward light and compact if I can. I am thinking for those spring and summer hikes a lightweight revolver on my hip open carried. I have a lot of research to do with ballistics in these calibers. Regarding the revolvers themselves, I have to admit the .357 is a much more versatile platform. Besides being less than half the weight of its .44 brother, and cheaper, the 340 has no exposed hammer. It is the better CCW should the situation dictate.