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How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

I bring this up as the opposite to the topic on 18 year olds carrying concealed. Sort of like the question of how old is too old to have a drivers license.

At one time in Arizona, you had to renew your CCW license every 4 years. Written questions, plus requalify for marksmanship at the range. It was pretty easy. When I got my original license, and at renewals, there were often elderly people who could not qualify on the range.

At the other extreme, a friend who was getting his license saw a man in his 80s who shook so badly that he could not pass the marksmanship test the first time. The instructor worked with him a while until he passed. My friend thought that the old guy was definitely too old to carry.

Later, Arizona dropped the retesting to renew the license. Then this year, they dropped the requirement to get a CCW license in order to CC. Those who want a license can keep renewing by mail, and it is recognized in 32 states.

My opinion is that you should be able to have a gun in your home as long as you want, but concealed carry needs a competency retest. Please understand that I am a believer in the Second Amendment. Your thoughts?
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

That's a good question. People should have a right to defend themselves but if they are unable to pass the test they probably can't effectively defend themselves and probably pose a risk to those around them.

So, I agree with you that there should be no requalification to own a handgun and keep one in your home but I think recertification for concealed carry is a good idea.
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

Maybe something like driving. If you can operate a motor vehicle, you should be able to have a CCW permit.

But that's not a perfect way to do it either. Actually, even if we can't operate a motor vehicle we should still be able to protect ourself as long as we are mentally able. :-\

Got to let those little old ladies and little old men defend theirself. Many of them are the source of wisdom for those of us not as experienced as they are and their harm or death would be our loss. ;D
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

Keeping and bearing is an enumerated right. Beyond being a competent non-felon, no adult citizen should have their rights questioned. I understand the arguments about public safety and I have rejected them as incompatible with liberty.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
 
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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

I recently went through this with my father 80s. He was an amazing shooter in his day. He only owns long guns. We discussed home protection and carry. After finding he couldn't rack any of my guns, we went to a local store where he became discouraged even with the revolvers. He also has developed a fairly severe tremor in his right hand. After this he thanked me and stated guns will not be in his future. I have to admire him for being able to realize his limits and say this.
He also recently took himself off night time driving. It makes it so much easier than having to make these decisions for him.
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

I am 69 years old and carry either the lcp or s&w 642 or Sig 238 on any given day. I only have hand guns and also shoot my S&W 617 or Ruger Single Six once a week. You are only as old as you shoot.
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

MightyM, it doesn't get easier, does it?

last summer an older gent, mid 80s cut of a 65 yo biker. Old dude pulled into a local hospital where his wife was having a hip replacement operation. 65 yo biker followed and assaulted the old dude. Old dude shot the biker. A righteous shoot.

Only as lod as you shoot, LMAO! ;D You haven't been to a range in St. Pete lately have you?
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

unclenunzie said:
Keeping and bearing is an enumerated right. Beyond being a competent non-felon, no adult citizen should have their rights questioned. I understand the arguments about public safety and I have rejected them as incompatible with liberty.
Hits all the right buttons. Age is irelevant.

However, many of our elderly fall through the cracks. Children don't visit, spouse passed away. Their health degrades and slowly, they stop taking care of themselves. Neighbors may wave when they see them out, but they don't interact. They may comment that, "He seemed OK, but did act a little strange..."

So I had the misfortune of delivering some homemade cookies to our (described above) elderly neighbor. He pulled his gun on me saying I stole something from him. Not quite sure who he thought I might have been, but life was measured in seconds and 1/4" trigger pull that day. It is not for me to judge, but when does competency end? It is a requisite, easily stated with bold strokes, but not so very cut and dry.

Yes, I now pay a little closer attention to people in those situations, but it's not for CW.
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

Age is not relevant. Competence is. That is why I would support some periodic recertification process, not an age limit. I recognize there are challenges with that approach, not the least of which would be potentially creeping standards making it difficult to retain second ammendment rights.

I respect the opinion of unclenunzie that we must protect individual liberties but not when it infringes on the liberties of others. When incompetent people are allowed to concealed carry in public places I believe it infringes on the liberties of others by creating an unsafe environment.

I don't pretend to have all of the answers, just an opinion.
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

The problem with setting limits on liberty is that each administration WILL errode them over time, slowly, as they have done for the 100 years+. How does the old saying go? If you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk. As soon as you open the door to the infringement of enumerated rights, the door will open more and more as time goes on and as each "emergency" prompts the government to act.

I would offer that instead of limiting the rights of ability of law-abiding citizens, we should focus on the issues that have a more relevant impact on our lives. How often do you hear of old people shooting the wrong people? Not nearly as often as those who drive drunk and kill an entire family just because they had a few too many to drink. Before you limit the right of the [law-abiding] people to keep and bear arms, first punish those who disobey simple laws.
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

Deadbolt said:
I would offer that instead of limiting the rights of ability of law-abiding citizens, we should focus on the issues that have a more relevant impact on our lives. How often do you hear of old people shooting the wrong people? Not nearly as often as those who drive drunk and kill an entire family just because they had a few too many to drink. Before you limit the right of the [law-abiding] people to keep and bear arms, first punish those who disobey simple laws.
Very good point, Deadbolt.
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

unclenunzie said:
Keeping and bearing is an enumerated right. Beyond being a competent non-felon, no adult citizen should have their rights questioned. I understand the arguments about public safety and I have rejected them as incompatible with liberty.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
+1
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

How old is "too old" for CC? Would anyone consider an 80 year old Korean War combat vet as too old for Conceal Carry?
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

I faced this issue with my dad a few years ago. He had owned and used guns for his whole life - born in Wyoming and an avid hunter. He was also a terrfic marksman. He became concerned with the number of home intrusion robberies in the area and took to carrying his S&W Model 36 snub nose all the time at home. All good, so far, especially since he grew up where there were no locks on the doors of people's homes and he never quite got used to the idea of consistantly locking up.

The last few years of his life, dementia started to rear its ugly head. I began to worry about his potential danger to himself and others. We discussed the issue and while he understood my conern, the phrase "cold dead fingers" came up. I could see that there would have to be intervention if his mental confusion got much worse. It turned out that I did not have to take that step, because he had a sudden illness and passed away.

This is a very good question. In my dad's case, I could see that there would be a time that he should not carry weapons. For me, this was a family issue, not the government's. At the point that a person becomes dangerous to his/her saftey or others, another custodian of their weapons seems a good idea, but I don't want Uncle Sugar making that decision for us.
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

It is a family issue. Keep the government out of it. Start down this road and all you will see is eroded rights. How old is too old to vote? You know those pesky old people and their outdated ideas of honor, loyalty, and faith. Best take the right to vote at the same time you take their 2A rights. Some "gun" folks just sicken me. You either have the right or you don't. It doesn't matter if its a black rifle or 10/22, you have the right to own it. If I am 18 and can get killed in war, or I'm 80 and a veteran, what is the difference? Why do so many people think it is okay for them, but not others? Do we make people take a test before they can vote? How about a test before you can speak? NO WRITTEN TEST, NO "COMPETENCY" TEST, JUST LET ME HAVE MY RIGHTS!
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

this is a topic of how old is too old for whatever. we can make a list a yard long of things that the eldery should not be allowed to do to protect them from themselves and others. if we start taking away their rights, when and where will it stop. i feel it is a family matter and should not be left to the govt. to decide. you may want to consult the family doctor when the time comes. most of the eldery i know, knows when it's time to give up their given rights, and their fine with that. finn
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

redmond said:
I faced this issue with my dad a few years ago. He had owned and used guns for his whole life - born in Wyoming and an avid hunter. He was also a terrfic marksman. He became concerned with the number of home intrusion robberies in the area and took to carrying his S&W Model 36 snub nose all the time at home. All good, so far, especially since he grew up where there were no locks on the doors of people's homes and he never quite got used to the idea of consistantly locking up.

The last few years of his life, dementia started to rear its ugly head. I began to worry about his potential danger to himself and others. We discussed the issue and while he understood my conern, the phrase "cold dead fingers" came up. I could see that there would have to be intervention if his mental confusion got much worse. It turned out that I did not have to take that step, because he had a sudden illness and passed away.

This is a very good question. In my dad's case, I could see that there would be a time that he should not carry weapons. For me, this was a family issue, not the government's. At the point that a person becomes dangerous to his/her saftey or others, another custodian of their weapons seems a good idea, but I don't want Uncle Sugar making that decision for us.
++ 1 Unfortunately.
I too had an elderly father who was plagued with reoccurring TIA (minor strokes) that left him in a state of dementia for two to three weeks and with each occurrence the dementia seemed to last a bit longer and leave him with fewer and fewer of his high-order brain function. A strong-willed man of his age and time hold on to two liberties as desperately as life itself. The unalienable right to protect himself and his loved ones and his right to come and go as he pleases. It was extremely difficult to convince him it was time to put the car keys away forever. We finally pleaded with him to call us to let us know if he was going to drive somewhere. When he asked why we had to tell him so that we could be sure to get his grandchildren off the streets because we knew how badly he would feel if he ever hurt one of them in a car accident. Though my dad didn’t shoot often in his later years he did dearly love the guns he had collected over the years. When his mental condition reached a state of unreasonable logic, I was forced to remove the guns from the house though I did leave a couple of guns that I was certain he couldn’t access ammunition for. I think taking that step was more traumatic for me than it was for me. I was so lucky to have him for his 91 years.
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

The question of maximum age in relation to CW is kind of moot. IMO, It’s not an issue. It is painful to hear, and moreso to experience the stories... watching and determining competency is brutal. It is not done in broad strokes.

However, outside of being reported to authorities for potential incompetence, the only time competence would come up in CW is at the time of application for a permit, renewal of a permit, or in the event of, say, a car or personal injury type accident. Ohio CCW is tied to the BMV. It would still take exhibited incompetence and not just a… oops, I ran over a curb type of incident.

No issue with unclenunzie. This is also not a federal or 2A issue. It is a state level issue only if the permit is requested and denied. It is a local… Municipal or Probate court issue on an individual basis if competency is questioned. At this level, Probate can mandate loss of liberty culminating with an appointed Guardian. IMO, that’s where the only authority and power is for this discussion.
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

It's a very tough question when dealing with what people should be able to do when they get old. My wifes Dad will be 100 years old in Feb. He's in a nursing home where we don't feel he's getting the best of care. So, we spend 5 days a week (more than 50 hrs not including the 1.5 hr a day travel time) He and his wife who passed a few years ago were still living on their own. Although they knew that the kids would help thim, they were of the generation who didn't want to be a burden in part due to their own parents living with them till almost 100, too.

They lived in a really small town and were still driving after they probably shouldn't have. Took two to drive, one to look in all directions and remember where they needed to go...trips were only about 5 block long. They decided when to stop driving but we noticed all the new little dents each time we visited, seemed to all be garage door jam related. I know of another family who took the keys away. Ma and Pa were rich enough and just bought another car.

During our times at the nursing home. I've seen the local Sheriff come in multiple times responding to 911 calls initiated by residents. Reasons typically include staff is being "abusive" because the food is cold, etc. Imagine if they still had a gun....

I just seems to me that certain circumstances should preclude a person of any age from having access to weapons. ( A year or so wresling great Vern Gagne threw one of his roommates down and caused internal injuries to the guy to where he died a few days later. That happened in a nursing home here in MN. ) Tough issue. Don't have all the answers.
 

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Re: How old is "too old" to conceal carry a pistol?

You can put an age limit on this just as soon as you get the Second Amendment changed to ... shall not be infringed except after age ??. Until that time, government, keep you damn nose out of my business.
 
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