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16 Posts
I'm the pastor (and a deputy sheriff). I've been carrying at church for quite some time. We also allow CWP holders to carry.
Do you carry at church?
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400 Posts
It gives me peace of mind to hear of everyone who is prepared in Church. It's a matter of "when" and not "if." God bless ya'll. We do get to know each other a bit here in the virtual world, and you guys strike me as responsible men that will "answer the call" should the worst happen.
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2,556 Posts
It's all fine and dandy we carry at Church and everywhere else. What makes us all think we will be able to do the right thing in a situation? Has anyone trained or practiced looking behind the threat? Has anyone trained their subconscious to move so the backstop is clear even if you have to jump over a few pews? Has anyone even shot their weapon fully stress inoculated? Has anyone even thought about any of this? The split second we are needed would not be a good time to learn anything. Den
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400 Posts
The answer to the above for me is I'll never know until game time, and I have done tactical training, not just range practice. That said, each of us needs to look deep inside and ask ourselves can we put down some young, crazy, evil kid, or at least try.
My answer is that I don't think I could live with myself very well if I had the opportunity to stop a tragedy, and did not act. My affairs are in order and I'd rather lose my life by trying than live in guilt for not.
My answer is that I don't think I could live with myself very well if I had the opportunity to stop a tragedy, and did not act. My affairs are in order and I'd rather lose my life by trying than live in guilt for not.
I agree you will never know until something happens. However, I got my conceal carry license to protect me and family. I'm not trained to be a cop and have no grand illusions that I can protect everyone just because I have a conceal carry license. Appears in this instance in SC there likely might not have been an option to bail out, just not sure. Under those circumstances I hope I could perform as I have practiced. However, if given the opportunity to escape, that would be my first plan for me and family. I did not get licensed for others. The majority of others have the same opportunity to carry as I do. If they choose not to do so, then they are responsible for themselves, not me. I know it may sound cold or calloused, but that's the way it is for me. YMMV.
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37 Posts
Good point ! And that is the real danger whether you are armed or not. It will happen so fast and when you least expect it. Look at that Air-Force loon a couple of weeks ago up in North Dakota at that Walmart. From out of no where he just starts shooting. And this latest nut-job was actually in the bible study for over an hour and just got up and stated blasting.
I do think though we can implement tighter security measures at certain places.
I mean we have been using mental detectors at the high-schools since the 1980's . Sad to have to do it at a Church but the world has changed. And more guns didn't change it, we've always had the guns. What has changed is these young people growing up mentally ill. I got my theories but I'll leave it alone. This much I will say, these young people for the most part where not born genetically predisposition towards mental illness. And in every mass shooting since Columbine these has been a distinct correlation.
Once again good comment. :thumbsup:
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2,556 Posts
I respect your opinion and would most likely take the same route most of the time. In my opinion we should both first think if we can help in the first few seconds an issue presents itself. For example in the Charleston church shooting, we would be sitting in a group of 13 people and a kid starts shooting. There wouldn't be much time to waste thinking if we should get involved. I hope we make the right decision to either jump right in or wait till we think we have to. Just some ideas to think about. Den
Heathen!:calm:
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606 Posts
Not a heathen
just not a fan of organized religion.
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671 Posts
News reports indicate that Roof reloaded 5 times. Unless you were among the first victims, there seems to have been plenty of opportunity to respond with force had any of the victims been armed.
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37 Posts
@ rpott3,
Well, if that was the case it sounds like someone might have been even able to tackle him. But as per usual as what happens people start running for cover and trying to get away.
It takes a real smooth operator to gauge what is happening and all within split seconds. People panic, start screaming and freaking out and or playing dead. Can't say I would even know what I would do, except try to find cover. It's always easier to look from the outside in and state our opinions. But I do agree that someone there armed might have, note that word 'might' have made a difference. Of course he picked a soft target, cowards usually do.
Well, if that was the case it sounds like someone might have been even able to tackle him. But as per usual as what happens people start running for cover and trying to get away.
It takes a real smooth operator to gauge what is happening and all within split seconds. People panic, start screaming and freaking out and or playing dead. Can't say I would even know what I would do, except try to find cover. It's always easier to look from the outside in and state our opinions. But I do agree that someone there armed might have, note that word 'might' have made a difference. Of course he picked a soft target, cowards usually do.
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1,824 Posts
I've read/heard the same reports, that he reloaded five times, but I'm somewhat skeptical of those reports. The gun he purchased was a Glock Model 41, .45 cal. The Glock 41 has a 13 round (or ten round) magazine. That means he would have fired 50-65 rounds before his fifth reload, which would have been his sixth magazine counting the one that was in the gun when he started firing; assuming, of course, that all magazines were loaded to capacity.
Considering that the one or ones reporting the number of "reloads" were in all likelihood probably not familiar with handguns, I'm suspecting that what they were referring to as "reloads" may have, in fact, been his racking the slide to clear a malfunction(s) of some type. I haven't heard or read any reports as to the number of shots actually fired. The number of casings on the floor at the scene would give a very, very close approximation.
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2,556 Posts
I thought he was given his weapon on his 18'th birthday. The 41 wasn't on the market yet. Could have been a 21 and I'm thinking it was 5 reloads...Glocks don't jam. It's a shame none of the victims could stop the shooting. Den
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1,824 Posts
He bought it at a local gun store in April a few days after his 21st birthday with money he received for his birthday, it was a Glock 41 and he cleared the Form 4473 background check.
Here's one of several videos showing Glock jams from limp wristing...infrequent maybe, but it can happen.
We certainly don't have all the facts yet, But I'm still skeptical that he emptied at least five full magazines.
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2,556 Posts
Here is a video of an old TV show series. This one has a couple in a meeting and a gunman comes in. They run a scenario, point out mistakes, and run a similar scenario. I found it while looking for something else. you can skip the Ads. A couple other episodes I glanced at were pretty cool. Den
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7 Posts
I am part of the security team for our church, and pretty much everybody on the team carries. I can't think of any that open carry, buy we seek out those who are involved in church activities in any way that cc and ask if they would join the team. We like to know which areas have firepower in the case of shtf. We have a police officer who is on duty patrolling or stationed at our lobby every Sunday, but he knows he has plenty of backup should he ever need it. Our executive and youth pastors actually have confided to me that it makes them feel comfortable that there are so many who carry, because they know they've got God's protection and man's, so they are free to speak the truth in love without worrying about crazies harming the congregation over what they say from the pulpit.
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