[mrjeep94]

I thought this may justify a new post, if the Mods don’t agree let me know and I will delete it and add to my previous post.

I have had some problems with my LCP and concerns about the lack of diamond mark on a new LCP 370 that Gander said was modified. For more on that look at this link.
http://elsiepeaforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1517.0

This may be a bit longwinded, but there is some good info. I called Ruger this morning.

First i spoke to a lady who said that "if it does not have a diamond, then it is not modified". She asked if I was positive there was no mark because they are sometimes hard to see. I told her I have looked with a Magnifying glass and it is not there. Then I told her that I purchased from Gander and she said, "wait, let me check to see if we did something special with Gander because we do a lot of business with them". She came back and said it should have the diamond and it is not modified. I told her that it would not short stroke, and she quickly referred me to Jim in the Technical department.

Jim said if it is a 370 then should have the diamond, and he asked for the serial number. When I told him it would not short stroke, then he said "well that's good, because that is part of the modification". I told him I had a silver barrel not a blue one, and he said "that does not matter, they are the same". When I told him about the mag latching problem and the 1mm x 3mm pin falling out he knew exactly what I was talking and said "OK, the pin is part of the latest modification so yours should be an upgraded 370". He said it sounded like my latch assembly was damaged so I needed to send it back in for repair. I asked what the pin was for and he said it was used to strengthen the mag latch.

He also said the red dot was a quality inspection, nothing more.

I asked why my LCP did not have the diamond and he said "because it probably went through production and received the upgrade when it was assembled as a new". But this does not make sense as it is not a 371 and the cartridge envelope says 8-08!!!

So, Now I am more confused. 370's with no diamonds, 370's with no diamonds that are new production, 371's with diamonds and 371's with no diamonds!!

The more I thought about it, the more the answers confused me. So I called again, this time I was able to get through to Joe Cramer (who is a very nice guy and very helpful). Joe told me the 370 should have a diamond no matter what. He said if it is modified it should not short stroke, and I told him mine would not, so he said it must be modified. He said my LCP must have slipped through and not received the diamond. I told him Gander had several that did not have the diamond so several must have slipped through.

When I told him about the mag not going in unless the mag release is pressed, he said that was a common problem with some units and all i had to do was "bump the mag in with your hand" a few times and it would correct it. I explained when I did that it popped in, but then the mag would not stay in and a pin fell out of the magwell. He said "Well, your mag latch is damaged and you will have to return it to us to and we will replace the mag latch".

I also told him the area around my mag release button had a lot of mill marks and looked bad compared to other LCP's I have looked at and he said the early models did not have enough relief/recess in this area and they were re-machined.

He said there is no difference between the silver or blued barrels, both made from the same material, the silver is an earlier barrel and the blued is later version, they just decided to blue it.

I also told him there were several reports of 371's with diamonds and he was surprised to hear this. He said "371's should not have diamonds" but that it was possible some slides were marked with diamonds in preparation for the modifications to older guns and somehow they parts made it on production 371's.

He took my name and address, and email address and said he would email me a UPS return form and they would take care of the problem. He said detail all the things I am concerned about or not happy with and they would address it. He also said they would also be sure to put the diamond on my 370.

Finally, I jokingly asked him about a 9mm LCP, after a long pause, he chuckled and said "I am not sure,,,,,,, even if we were, I could not tell you!"

It sounds like there may be confusion on some of the diamond markings. However, I personally do not want to bash them on this as Joe was VERY nice, helpful, and more than willing to correct the problem. I guess mistakes happen. I haven’t even fired it yet, but I like the little gun and want to make it work.

 

[jocko]

nice report, and u answered all questions. nice job. Joe Cramer seems to know most of what is going on. IMO you talked to the right guy---hopefully..

 

[mrjeep94]

I brought my LCP to work today and took a look at the mag latch through a microscope (man I am getting into this WAY too much). Anyway, it looks like the pin goes horizontally across the top of the latch, it may be just below the top surface, that is why it is so hard to see normally. This makes some sense as the pin would be in contact with the metal mag, preventing wear to the latch. My pin must have been sticking out enough to catch on the mag. When I popped the mag in it ripped out the pin. I took some photos through the microscope and will post if anyone is interested. I have photos of the top and bottom of the latch, as well as better photos of the pin, and the mill marks around my mag release button. Oh and I took photos where the diamond should, a lot of people were questioning whether it was there or not. I will post them later tonight.

 

[kraigster414]

Excellent report, thank you very much.

Unfortunately, plastic mag catches have been problematic in other polymer frame guns as well. It was a problem in the initial run of S&W M&P's and the factory eventually metal hardened a portion of the part. The fact of the matter is, they just get chewed up in some guns (tolerances vary and there lies the problem, ditto for how often you shoot) when coming in contact with a metal mag unless they are designed just right, the beefier the better with a strong spring to match. The roll pin from what I am understanding was the intened fix. I'll be darned if I can spot the roll pin in my post-recall gun - so far it shoots fine as it appears the case with the majority of LCP's.

Joe Cramer indeed is a good guy. Very familiar with this site and I urge all member who need to talk to him about any problems they are having, to mention that you are a member of elsiepeaforum.com. You definitely want to send your gun back to Ruger Jeep. This time I suspect it will be the charm. Again, thanks for sharing.

As for the diamonds, I am not even going to try and figure that one out. LOL. Confusing for sure.

 

[45longcolt]

I brought my LCP to work today and took a look at the mag latch through a microscope (man I am getting into this WAY too much). Anyway, it looks like the pin goes horizontally across the top of the latch, it may be just below the top surface, that is why it is so hard to see normally. This makes some sense as the pin would be in contact with the metal mag, preventing wear to the latch. My pin must have been sticking out enough to catch on the mag. When I popped the mag in it ripped out the pin. I took some photos through the microscope and will post if anyone is interested. I have photos of the top and bottom of the latch, as well as better photos of the pin, and the mill marks around my mag release button. Oh and I took photos where the diamond should, a lot of people were questioning whether it was there or not. I will post them later tonight.

Looking forward to those pixs! Thanks for sharing.

 

[raton2008]

Not to add to the confusion but I just got off the phone with Ruger. I was inquiring as to why my 371 series has a diamond marking. I first spoke with the LCP recall folks who couldn't answer my question. Customer service then got on the call and after the rep spoke with a supervisor (sorry didn't get names of either of these ladies) they informed me that ALL LCP's going forward are supposed to have a diamond mark. I then mentioned this forum and stated that many people have commented that they have 371's with no diamond mark and that mine seemed to be the anomaly. They said all are supposed to have them. She even said the supervisor read from the recall letter (note I don't have one of these to compare) which said all pistols will have the diamond going forward.

This is obviously very different from what was just posted above. I'm at a loss to explain the discrepancies between what we're being told.

She did say that the colored dots are simply to indicate who inspected the weapon. So that's consistent anyway.

Oh, one last item, I directed her to the following forum (http://elsiepeaforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1511.0) that has a picture of the hard plastic case some have posted about. She looked at it, had her supervisor look at it, and they both said they've never seen it before and don't think it came from their factory. How odd is that?!

 

[DesertPunisher425]

Well that is some interesting stuff!

Kind of odd that they couldn't really give you any kind of solid reason why yours has the mod but no diamond. The explination they gave you... I don't know; sounds like guessing to me. Either way, at least you know it was done at the factory, by people familar with the mod, there is no difference in the barrel and all those other good tid-bits of info.

on the 9mm LCP... I don't think what he said means a whole lot. In my line of work, when dealing with the public or the media, anything you can answer, you answer directly. Anything you cannot answer, you defer them to someone higher; something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I don't have any information on that subject, perhaps you could talk to ------". The reason for this form of answer is simple... it helps decrease rumor propigation. If you simply say "I can't discuss ------" or the biggest poser-retard line of all "I can neither confirm nor deny..." people take that to mean whatever is the most sensational. It's just the way it goes; admit to having knowledge and refuse to share it... everyone assumes it is the answer that has the biggest outcome. For just about anything except advertising... this is exactly what you don't want. In the marketing field, you want as much sensation and rumor you can get; good, bad, ugly... it doesn't matter. It's bringing your company, and the product you are releasing volumes of attention because you're leaving the door to asumption wide open. So by Joe's statement, I wouldn't take anything from it... it could mean there's a 9mm version pending release... or it could mean they are coming out with yet another variation on the 10/22 and are looking to ride the wave of attention.

 

[kraigster414]

I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle regarding the diamond stamps. If you sent your 370+ gun in for the recall, it has been upgraded. If you buy a 371+ gun today, it has the latest mods. Ditto for plastic cases, no plastic cases. What is most important to me and I think what should be most important to you, is the mag catch and the protruding roll pin issue that has cropped up in several guns. This is what we should focus on to ensure it is not a systemic issue and Ruger is on top of it. As for the rumors of a planned 9mm pocket Ruger, we've all seen this played out before. You'll see it when you see it and if it sounds like something you want and need, you'll hear more soon enough.

 

[mrjeep94]

I uploaded 12 photos. Here is a link to the first one, then you can scroll through all of them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3172535480/in/photostream/ If you have problems viewing let me know and I will post links for each one. Click on view as slideshow, it is much easier to view that way.

Forgive some poor shots, I usually have my lab tech run the scope for me and I was in a hurry (late for dinner again). I recommend looking at them all, as some show detail in areas that others don't.

I have pics of the following;

1. the pin upclose, side shot and end shot.
2. Several pics of the top of the latch where the pin went in horizontally. You can see where it ripped out when i popped the mag in.
3. couple of pics of the bottom of the latch. note the wear already starting after only a few insertions of the mag. Note: as i have said several times this gun has not been fired.
4. couple of photos of the area where the diamond should be.
5. photos of the milled area around the buttom. As I said I only added this because i have look at several other LCP's and they are very smooth and finished in this area.

 

[HowardCohodas]

Having worked closely with the manufacturing operation of a Fortune 500 company manufacturing mechanical components, none of what has been reported in this thread neither surprises nor disturbs me. In spite of dedicated and disciplined people, stuff happens! Especially traumatic are change overs like Ruger is going through with the LCP.

My measure of Ruger as a company is and will continue to be how it deals with these kinds of hiccups. So far, their performance is far superior to what I have encountered in my experience. I have been spoiled by my old company, Ruger and S&W. Makes me intolerant of less than this kind of performance.

 

[DesertPunisher425]

I uploaded 12 photos. Here is a link to the first one, then you can scroll through all of them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3172535480/in/photostream/ If you have problems viewing let me know and I will post links for each one.

Forgive some poor shots, I usually have my lab tech run the scope for me and I was in a hurry (late for dinner again). I recommend looking at them all, as some show detail in areas that others don't.

I have pics of the following;

1. the pin upclose, side shot and end shot.
2. Several pics of the top of the latch where the pin went in horizontally. You can see where it ripped out when i popped the mag in.
3. couple of pics of the bottom of the latch. note the wear already starting after only a few insertions of the mag. Note: as i have said several times this gun has not been fired.
4. couple of photos of the area where the diamond should be.
5. photos of the milled area around the buttom. As I said I only added this because i have look at several other LCP's and they are very smooth and finished in this area.

WOW... that area around the mag release looks horrible!!! Looks like it didn't receive any finish work.

I'm not sure why they didn't just replace the mag release with hard anodized aluminum instead of this pin "fix". I can't imagine an aluminum release would add that much to the pistol, cost wise; weight would be minimal. Oh well... mine seems to work alright.

 

[mrjeep94]

Having worked closely with the manufacturing operation of a Fortune 500 company manufacturing mechanical components, none of what has been reported in this thread neither surprises nor disturbs me. In spite of dedicated and disciplined people, stuff happens! Especially traumatic are change overs like Ruger is going through with the LCP.

My measure of Ruger as a company is and will continue to be how it deals with these kinds of hiccups. So far, their performance is far superior to what I have encountered in my experience. I have been spoiled by my old company, Ruger and S&W. Makes me intolerant of less than this kind of performance.

HowardCohodas, I couldn't agree more. I also work in the manufacturing industry, we design and manufacture our own products for mining and aerospace industries. A good company tries to correct all problems before it gets in the customers hands, but some type of problem ALWAYS occurs, at some point. What makes a great company is how they deal with the problem/issue. Even though my LCP is not fixed yet, I am satisfied so far, mainly because of the call with Ruger. To start with, it was easy for me to get through on the phone, they actually answered calls, and I got to speak to a very knowledgeable person that knew how to deal with a customer that has a problem. If a company has a problem and will work with me, I will work with them.

 

[kraigster414]

Jeep, you are a breath of fresh air. If only more people had your attitude. I wish you had won the [email protected]#$ free holster! LOL.

Fair and balanced, love to see it and Howard has led the pack from Day 1.

 

[mrjeep94]

Hmmm, I could use a new holster......................... Thanks Kraigster

 

[mrjeep94]

Well that is some interesting stuff!

Kind of odd that they couldn't really give you any kind of solid reason why yours has the mod but no diamond. The explination they gave you... I don't know; sounds like guessing to me. Either way, at least you know it was done at the factory, by people familar with the mod, there is no difference in the barrel and all those other good tid-bits of info.

on the 9mm LCP... I don't think what he said means a whole lot. In my line of work, when dealing with the public or the media, anything you can answer, you answer directly. Anything you cannot answer, you defer them to someone higher; something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I don't have any information on that subject, perhaps you could talk to ------". The reason for this form of answer is simple... it helps decrease rumor propigation. If you simply say "I can't discuss ------" or the biggest poser-retard line of all "I can neither confirm nor deny..." people take that to mean whatever is the most sensational. It's just the way it goes; admit to having knowledge and refuse to share it... everyone assumes it is the answer that has the biggest outcome. For just about anything except advertising... this is exactly what you don't want. In the marketing field, you want as much sensation and rumor you can get; good, bad, ugly... it doesn't matter. It's bringing your company, and the product you are releasing volumes of attention because you're leaving the door to asumption wide open. So by Joe's statement, I wouldn't take anything from it... it could mean there's a 9mm version pending release... or it could mean they are coming out with yet another variation on the 10/22 and are looking to ride the wave of attention.

I probably should not have included the comment about the 9mm in this post, and am not trying to fuel rumors. It was just something I said to him in jest, and he gave me a professional answer. I wouldn't read into it too deep.

 

[RugerShooter]

After seeing your pics, I don't blame you for being a little upset the milling is horrible. I am also glad a pin did NOT get put into my LCP while it was in for recall if it is going to just tear out

 

[DesertPunisher425]

Well that is some interesting stuff!

Kind of odd that they couldn't really give you any kind of solid reason why yours has the mod but no diamond. The explination they gave you... I don't know; sounds like guessing to me. Either way, at least you know it was done at the factory, by people familar with the mod, there is no difference in the barrel and all those other good tid-bits of info.

on the 9mm LCP... I don't think what he said means a whole lot. In my line of work, when dealing with the public or the media, anything you can answer, you answer directly. Anything you cannot answer, you defer them to someone higher; something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I don't have any information on that subject, perhaps you could talk to ------". The reason for this form of answer is simple... it helps decrease rumor propigation. If you simply say "I can't discuss ------" or the biggest poser-retard line of all "I can neither confirm nor deny..." people take that to mean whatever is the most sensational. It's just the way it goes; admit to having knowledge and refuse to share it... everyone assumes it is the answer that has the biggest outcome. For just about anything except advertising... this is exactly what you don't want. In the marketing field, you want as much sensation and rumor you can get; good, bad, ugly... it doesn't matter. It's bringing your company, and the product you are releasing volumes of attention because you're leaving the door to asumption wide open. So by Joe's statement, I wouldn't take anything from it... it could mean there's a 9mm version pending release... or it could mean they are coming out with yet another variation on the 10/22 and are looking to ride the wave of attention.

I probably should not have included the comment about the 9mm in this post, and am not trying to fuel rumors. It was just something I said to him in jest, and he gave me a professional answer. I wouldn't read into it too deep.

Don't think I was criticizing you for including it... I just wanted to be sure anyone reading it didn't make the wrong assumption that his response "really" means "he can't talk about the 9mm LCP they are introducing at the shot show"...

 

[mrjeep94]

After seeing your pics, I don't blame you for being a little upset the milling is horrible. I am also glad a pin did NOT get put into my LCP while it was in for recall if it is going to just tear out

From the conversation I had with Ruger, it sounded like all modified LCP's got the pin. Before mine ripped out, I could not see it either. I could be wrong, but I think they drilled a hole just below the top surface of the latch and pushed in the pin. There may be some inconsistency in the depth below the surface, which may be why mine ripped out so easy.

It would be good if someone could take a small wire bent 90 degree on the end or a 90 degree oring pick and feel around on the side of the latch. My guess is that you may not see the pin, but it is there.

 

[RugerShooter]

OK, I couldn't find a piece of wire but I do have a magnet that telescopes out (kind of looks like a dental mirror but with a magnet on the end, not a mirror) and there is definalty something steel that the magnet sticks to on the mag release. So it apears that mine does have the roll pin. :-\

 

[jocko]

OK, I couldn't find a piece of wire but I do have a magnet that telescopes out (kind of looks like a dental mirror but with a magnet on the end, not a mirror) and there is definalty something steel that the magnet sticks to on the mag release. So it apears that mine does have the roll pin. :-\

cool idea, I jsut went out and tried my mag catch, It does not have the roll pin in it. I jsut got it back last week from Ruger. I have no issues at alleither with the magazine release but that is a sure fire way to test to see if you have one..