[petergunn]

Nothing magical about Precision One ammo as far as I can tell. It simply performed best in a series of tests conducted by Ammo Quest. Given that the .380 ACP is considered by a lot of folks to be barely adequate as a self-defense round, some think that the best-performing .380 round they can get is worth the extra money, particularly if they plan to stake their life on it. YMMV.

If the"tests" reflect real life situations then it may be worth the extra$$. but I'm not willing to assume the threat with always be standing square with arms down, so I doubt 12" of penetration whether through an arm or turned torso is adequate.


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[ETS]

A detailed revue of the FBI standards includes consideration of sufficient penetration of the torso from all angles and includes penetration of intervening arms and bones.

 

[Splinter]

As an LEO I've been in those real life situations more than once, but w/my issued .38 and in spite of the reputation of that caliber the FBI +P stopped the bad guy every time and I made it to retirement. The other consideration I had is over penetration b/c my jurisdiction was a densly populated urban environment, and I still live there. I'm going to the range tomorrow to test the Precision One for reliability and accuracy, and if the honey-do list will wait a couple of hours I'll post my results here.

 

[ETS]

I don't think anyone would quarrel with the Prec. One as a good choice for SD. Looking forward to your report.

 

[petergunn]

A detailed revue of the FBI standards includes consideration of sufficient penetration of the torso from all angles and includes penetration of intervening arms and bones.

So to be consistent the testing should be FBI standards. I'm curious why testing isn't done by SAAMI, it seems there's no shortage of YouTube warriors and people with ammo sales interests doing tests. Caveat Emptor still makes the most sense to me.

Hey OP you started this thread about FMJ why the change?


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[ETS]

As an LEO I've been in those real life situations more than once, but w/my issued .38 and in spite of the reputation of that caliber the FBI +P stopped the bad guy every time and I made it to retirement. The other consideration I had is over penetration b/c my jurisdiction was a densly populated urban environment, and I still live there. I'm going to the range tomorrow to test the Precision One for reliability and accuracy, and if the honey-do list will wait a couple of hours I'll post my results here.

Splinter-I agree that in order to keep this thread from going too far astray, it would be best to start a new thread on your range report tomorrow.

 

[Splinter]

Will do ETS, I'll title it Elsie & Precision One - A Range Report.

 

[Splinter]

Posted a few minutes ago under LCP Pocket, Range Card. Hope it's helpful . . .

 

[pennsy]

It's about time (one year) to change out my carry ammo and I'm considering switching from HP to FMJ for the necessary penetration. Anyone have experience or recommendations? My Elsie is the Gen 2 (not the LCP II) and digested WWB as well as most other brand name range fodder w/o any problems. My daily orbits are very tame, I'm all done w/seeking out dangerous people and places.

Not that I think .380 is bear medicine but if push comes to shove and Elsie is all I have on me , it's going to be FMJ . I was using the string trimmer today and my wife yells to me to look out for a small bear that won't take go for an answer . It kept going between the bird feeder and the compost pile and generally hanging around . It is only a yearling and seems to be used to people . Probably the cub I saw last fall alone after bear season . I kept working and he seemed as curious of me as I was in him . The trimmer noise did not scare him . Here are some pictures my wife took :

 

[ETS]

Wonder about Lehigh XP, especially as far as penetration goes and it seems to leave larger wound channel than fmj. I believe Lehigh has upped the muzzle vel. about 100 fps since STB did his Ammo Quest on them. They seem to feed like butter in both my LCP and LCP II.

 

[pennsy]

Wonder about Lehigh XP, especially as far as penetration goes and it seems to leave larger wound channel than fmj. I believe Lehigh has upped the muzzle vel. about 100 fps since STB did his Ammo Quest on them. They seem to feed like butter in both my LCP and LCP II.

Yeah , they do seem to fit the bill between penetration and wound channel . I just wish there was some other proof other than gel tests . I have the sneaky suspicion they were developed for the test and real life performance my differ . I could be completely wrong about it . I'm also a cheapskate and Fiocchi FMJ are reasonably priced and also feed great . Also seem pretty hot . The phillips screw driver shaped bullets just may be the bullet design of the future but for now I'm going to wait and see .

 

[ETS]

XPs are about $1.40 to $1.50 per round-that does seem just a tad steep. Have wondered about how much damage would occur in living tissue vs. gel. Never the less, would probably be more than fmj.


For SD, still haven't swapped out my Fiocchi Extrema for the Lehigh XP, yet. By the same token, didn't win the lottery either!

 

[pennsy]

XPs are about $1.40 to $1.50 per round-that does seem just a tad steep. Have wondered about how much damage would occur in living tissue vs. gel. Never the less, would probably be more than fmj.


For SD, still haven't swapped out my Fiocchi Extrema for the Lehigh XP, yet. By the same token, didn't win the lottery either!

Stumbled upon this Lehigh XP article :Does Lehigh deserve its gimmick reputation?The Firearm Blog

 

[pennsy]

The bears in NE Pa. get huge . This one was taken with a bow in 2010 . I think a .380 would only anger him . We have had some big ones in the back yard . Record-busting, 879-pound bear bagged in Poconos - News - poconorecord.com - Stroudsburg, PA

It was a good kill but it also was a fed bear : http://www.poconorecord.com/article/20101119/NEWS/101119760

 

[bld522]

Stumbled upon this Lehigh XP article :Does Lehigh deserve its gimmick reputation?The Firearm Blog

Good find, pennsy. Thanks. :thumbsup:

 

[RVER]

I've been a LEO since 1985 and have seen a few shooting victims. The small city that I work in had over 85 shootings last year. All but 17 survived. FMJ was used in the vast majority of those shootings and thank goodness that the bad guys haven't yet heard that round nose / FMJ are ineffective rounds!

For what it's worth, I carry & recommennd FMJ in .38 and smaller calibers, and Speer GDHP, Rem Golden Sabers, or Hornady Critical Defense in .9mm and larger calibers.
The .380 FMJ just seems to work and a FMJ loaded LCP rides in my pocket when my Glock 26 is too large to conceal.

Regarding the whole FMJ "pass thru" danger thing, it's just not something that I'm overly concerned about in the smaller calibers as this seems to occur more frequently when gel blocks get shot compared to people. Bone, cartlidge, muscle, and organs really tend to do a number on bullets...

Stay safe!

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[ETS]

Good info-thanks. Doubt that you have had any experience with them(at about $1.40 ea.-way too expensive for the av. bad guy), but wonder about your thoughts ref. Lehigh's E.P.

 

[JUS1MO]

I have settled in with the Underwood Lehigh Extreme Defender since watching the youtube videos concerning penetration and wound cavity. The penetrators might penetrate too much and go through and hit an unintended target. However we need all the power we can get in a .380....

 

[SkipD]

I have settled in with the Underwood Lehigh Extreme Defender since watching the youtube videos concerning penetration and wound cavity. The penetrators might penetrate too much and go through and hit an unintended target. However we need all the power we can get in a .380....

In my opinion you have made a BIG mistake in choosing the Underwood load. From what they publish, it appears that their ammo is a bit too much for the LCP family. Switch to the same bullet loaded by Lehigh and you will be less likely to blow up your pistol.

 

[JUS1MO]

In my opinion you have made a BIG mistake in choosing the Underwood load. From what they publish, it appears that their ammo is a bit too much for the LCP family. Switch to the same bullet loaded by Lehigh and you will be less likely to blow up your pistol.

I read that Underwood is somewhat hotter but did not realize it would be a danger in the LCP. Would it be OK in the Glock 42? Thanks for you insight.......